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[Music]

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this hope radio for the masses headline

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of the July 8 1947 the Army Air Force

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roof has a knob start applying there -

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found under now in the possession of the

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RA the game is rigged change the game

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changer I occasionally think how quickly

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our differences worldwide would vanish

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if we were facing an alien threat from

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this is fade to black with your host

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Jimmy Church on the game changer radio

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network and kgr a the global radio

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I need your help to get to the year 1985

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[Music]

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you're listening to fade to black with

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Jimmy judge on the game changing Network

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good evening say the black the spoke

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radio for the masses how you doing it's

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Thursday January 30th 2020 30 days into

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the new year

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we are live from a bunker a bunker that

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is somewhere in the middle of beautiful

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downtown Burbank California and I would

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like to welcome everybody listening all

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around the world all across the United

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States hither and thither to and fro

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back and forth up and down east and west

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north and south far and near

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this is fade to black for kjc yards a

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game changer network and Keiji are a the

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planets i'm your host jimmy church

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what is cracking everybody how you doing

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tonight tonight very special guest James

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Fox is here he's the director of his new

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film the phenomenon this is our special

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event yesterday we premiered the trailer

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for the film that went worldwide and

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we'll get it up here in Twitter in just

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a bit if you haven't seen it yet and

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tonight we're gonna discuss the film and

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that's right and at the top of the hour

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we will have a very special surprise

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guest join us and there you go it's

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going to be a great night it's always a

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huge event with when James has a new

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film coming out and I'm excited I've

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seen it I've seen the film I have seen

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the film and yeah yeah it is all that

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alright welcome back

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fade to black I'm Marisa me Church

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tonight it is our James Fox special

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event featuring his film the phenomenon

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now earlier this week we did announce a

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super special surprise first-time guest

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tonight on the show that will be joining

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us that guess was to be Christopher

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Mellon Christopher is out of country

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with the flu he's down for the count but

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he will he will be on fade to black in

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the future but that doesn't mean we

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don't have a special surprise

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super-duper guest because james fox

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today said jimmy you just relax I got

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this welcome back James how are you

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thank you for having me on the show

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thank you for for accepting the

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invitation what am I supposed to say to

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that James you know I've been following

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the trailer spreading like wildfire

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around the world

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and I've been having to sort of pinch

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myself because I I can't believe it's

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happening you know it's like seven years

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the better part of seven years pushing

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and shoving and there was one of the

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most challenging by a longshot

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projects I've ever been involved with I

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have to I'm hoping at some point I'll be

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able to sleep for a month but I didn't

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described it like imagine you're in the

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ring with a monster and this monster has

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you out muscled out maneuvered out

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performs in every possible way and

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you're just trying to survive another

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moment with this monster that's what

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it's been like for the last seven years

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with the phenomenon well and and I I

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want you to make a confession to the

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audience along with myself in that you

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and I have been in constant contact

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about this film over the last three or

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four years and you have done I will I

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will admit that you have done nothing

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but work right and you've and you just

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your enthusiasm behind it I don't know

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where you have found the energy but here

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we are you know I what I I would often

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say and I'm not kidding there was one

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point where I was actually in the Edit

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room with this other gentleman that

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helped edit Lance Mangia and he's great

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I was I couldn't walk and I was pushing

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myself so hard my body started to shut

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down and I couldn't walk it also I was

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lying on my back on the Edit room floor

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and I'm kind of directing Lance and

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Lance this it go like this and you know

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here and I honestly thought I was on the

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verge of dying and Lance looked over he

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goes dude you need to go get help

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like this is ridiculous oh my god I

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gotta keep pushing harder he's like no

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man dude the show was I gotta get done

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if you die let go

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God we'd do a chiropractor I went to a

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massage therapist I was I started takin

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essence ball I couldn't walk honestly I

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think it was like sitting in the Edit

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room chair for three and a half years

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staring at the screen and that

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monotonous movement back and forth you

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know right typical well now just like

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anybody who has gotten really lucky with

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acclaim and and and criticism like you

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have with out of the blue and and I know

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what I saw

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where the the standard for you is

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friggin high you've gotta top those two

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films and that's where we are at right

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now did you do it I am beyond happy with

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the outcome of this film

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I wasn't three months ago it was decent

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it was like you know I showed people

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that I god this is really powerful but

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in the last three months I had a bunch

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of screenings we took extensive notes we

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listened to her audience we went back to

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the drawing board you trimmed 30 minutes

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out it closed in my opinion it flows

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like Niagara Falls now I mean it's

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really gripping in fact I have a

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gentleman I've been working with Boris

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he's an online editor post-production

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calls up the finisher but he was doing

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color Corrections and sounds whoo and

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stuff like that and he sends me a text

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message just a few weeks ago he goes

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damn it this film is so hard to work on

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and I was looking to myself what is he

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talking about and he goes it's so good I

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keep forgetting that I'm trying to walk

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I'm sorry I gotta work well I've been

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working with him 25 years the first time

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he's ever said that at five films that

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I've made six films that I've made so I

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thought well this is a good sign

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well that's but to see that's exactly

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the point I am a film fanatic I am a

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true fan and I study film I study film

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and I lose interest very quickly

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James if the content could be great but

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if the editing is a little bit off if

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the cinematography isn't quite there if

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there's not enough attention to the

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detail with production my mind wanders

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there's too much good content

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and the ability to and I'm talking about

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film studio quality productions can be

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done if you take the time to do it if

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that's what you want to do but this

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community is always let down in that

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area right it's just it's it's okay but

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we need something I can give you we need

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something to represent we need something

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to represent where where we can sit back

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and go see alright we've got this you

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know let me tell you the moment I

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realized I needed to up the ante I

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worked really hard out of the blue we

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all did and when it was finished we sold

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it to nbc/universal and I wasn't

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satisfied I was like this isn't the film

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that I imagined it would be

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and the whole time it really bothered me

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but we were out of steam I think my my

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online production guy Boris lubob was

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literally in a fetal position crying his

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wife's like you're killing my husband

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like stop this film is done so I just

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kind of let it go and it went out and we

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sold it made her money back and you know

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blah blah blah three years went by and

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the whole time I'm thinking that film

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wasn't the filaments they're not to make

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three years went by NBCUniversal contact

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means we're not renewing the broadcast

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option so I owned the film again I went

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back to the drawing board I spend in

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there two years on out of the blue I

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rerelease it and that was much closer

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but I still failed then I didn't I know

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what I saw and I know what I saw I'm

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ever had a rough cut and I was telling

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my investors and you push and you push

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and you push and you push and you push

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and then the eventually eventually the

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investors say you know we're done here

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you keep saying that you know you need

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this much more money and then this more

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small money and you know when is this

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gonna stop we were done and I said we

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can't shop the film the way it is it

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just doesn't look right you wouldn't

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take a used car and sell it dirty you'd

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get it detailed in color correction

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audio sweetening and you know and they

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didn't you know anyway it went to

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Lionsgate and Lionsgate owner loved it

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this is I know what I saw and they want

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it went in all up to acquisitions and

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then the technical department looked at

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it

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and they said you know we're gonna have

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to take a pass this films is quite you

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know it's not quite up to our standards

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and so the production values are a

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little lackluster and we're gonna go

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dick pass and it was such a devastating

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blow to me at the time because I thought

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you know I knew this was gonna happen

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and I just didn't have the resources and

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time to make it right

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and so I said I'll never make this

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mistake again

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so in this film when I started shooting

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this film if I didn't have the money to

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do it right I didn't do it until I had

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the money to hire lighting crews and

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audio guys I brought in this guy David

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West he's a phenomenal photographer you

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know National Geographic guy and and you

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know and I wanted it to be beautiful I

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wanted the production value to be really

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high I wanted the music to be composed I

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wanted like the color correction every

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little detail mattered I brought in this

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guy Mark Barrish he's one of the best

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writers he's like you know Harvard guy

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like super smart he's you know 1% of his

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work is UFOs and he he and I teamed up

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and he's an incredibly good writer and

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like you know I'm a decent writer this

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guy is like 10 notches above me and he

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was over my shoulder the whole time put

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this together Jacque fillet comes on

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board grinding it out in the studio with

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us weekend after weekend we had a studio

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that had no running water no toilet and

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no internet okay it was like the whole

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we called it that the game but Jacques

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would come out and jocks like it's

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important to get it right and Jacques

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says stickler you know but he's he's

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right and to have all of those forces

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and all that creativity and all that

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support you know gave birth to the

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phenomenon and I'm really really proud

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of it and I'm really proud of all the

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00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:16,949
people that were involved to get it to

270
00:13:22,989 --> 00:13:20,100
where it is I was reading through a lot

271
00:13:26,779 --> 00:13:22,999
of the comments online from people that

272
00:13:30,109 --> 00:13:26,789
were watching the trailer and and

273
00:13:33,349 --> 00:13:30,119
commenting on that and I think most the

274
00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:33,359
majority are like okay I can't wait this

275
00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:36,089
is great it looks amazing and and people

276
00:13:40,789 --> 00:13:37,860
are impressed with that as they should

277
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:40,799
be and then there's the other comments

278
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:42,600
which are equally as valid

279
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:46,110
is there going to be anything new here

280
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:49,530
that is presented or is it going to be

281
00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:52,530
just more of the same for us in the UFO

282
00:13:58,700 --> 00:13:55,380
community I have seen the film and I'm

283
00:14:01,820 --> 00:13:58,710
here to tell you I learned a lot from

284
00:14:05,450 --> 00:14:01,830
this film and that's a very difficult

285
00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:05,460
thing to do isn't it and and what what

286
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:08,040
did you go through to select and find

287
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:10,290
and get this research done to have

288
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:13,430
something fresh to bring to the table I

289
00:14:20,270 --> 00:14:16,620
could honestly give you a 3-hour

290
00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:20,280
interview on every single clip that we

291
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:23,220
found historical clip clip right down to

292
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:26,250
the 1978 United Nations footage that Lee

293
00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:29,130
Spiegel yes put together with you know

294
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:32,630
Jacques Malay and dr. J Allen Hynek and

295
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:36,720
coin the pilot equals 1975 had it in

296
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:39,180
traumatic encounter but any case that

297
00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:41,760
footage you know Lee Spiegel organized

298
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:43,830
the event he puts on you never there's

299
00:14:48,050 --> 00:14:46,800
no footage I never saw that before that

300
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:48,060
blew me away

301
00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:53,130
radar room the night of 1952 when the

302
00:14:57,530 --> 00:14:55,230
Capitol building was buzzed you know

303
00:15:00,440 --> 00:14:57,540
that's incredibly rare footage that was

304
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:00,450
Tom Julian with the with project sign it

305
00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:02,310
was a mirror he came on board because of

306
00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:05,580
Jacques you know there was a you know

307
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:08,790
Nash and Fortenberry that famous 1952

308
00:15:14,750 --> 00:15:11,490
sighting were those discs you know flew

309
00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:14,760
under the airplane having testimony from

310
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:16,740
him it really brought that to life

311
00:15:20,540 --> 00:15:18,330
we found footage at the Truman library

312
00:15:23,330 --> 00:15:20,550
that no one's ever seen Jacque footage

313
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,340
of Jacques that he'd never seen and and

314
00:15:29,150 --> 00:15:25,920
that was really important to me because

315
00:15:31,070 --> 00:15:29,160
I'm like look I understand that I'm

316
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,080
gonna have to give a history lesson a

317
00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:33,120
lesson because if we achieve our goal

318
00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:34,670
and penetrate a much broader audience

319
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:36,960
they're not gonna have they're not gonna

320
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:39,150
have the foundation the understanding of

321
00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:41,100
the phenomenon prior to this there's no

322
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:42,600
way they're gonna believe a landing

323
00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:43,890
happen in Africa at the end of the film

324
00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:46,950
no way so I had to doing it I had to do

325
00:15:51,890 --> 00:15:49,460
an educational historical perspective

326
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:51,900
but it didn't want to do the same old

327
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:54,540
rehash stuff or departing a fresh new

328
00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:56,220
spin like look we cover can

329
00:16:00,110 --> 00:15:58,290
Arnel but we got his daughter talking

330
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:00,120
about it and all the documents and

331
00:16:03,950 --> 00:16:02,490
photographs and lentils letters of

332
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:03,960
correspondence routing him in the Air

333
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:06,810
Force that happened in 1947 stuff that's

334
00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:09,330
never been seen or heard of ever and so

335
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:11,550
that is the approach that we took with

336
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:14,850
the phenomenon and tonight right before

337
00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:17,220
I brought you one I announced everybody

338
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:21,270
that our super-secret special surprise

339
00:16:26,860 --> 00:16:23,070
guest tonight first-time guest was going

340
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:26,870
to be Christopher Mellon and for you to

341
00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:31,890
to be able to sit down and have very

342
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:34,670
open conversations with Chris because he

343
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:38,490
has been in the background you know he's

344
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:39,570
been out there's been in the background

345
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:42,320
but we haven't heard from him directly

346
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:46,320
you had the opportunity to do that did

347
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,290
you hold back or did you go straight at

348
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:52,320
the questions that you needed to with

349
00:16:58,220 --> 00:16:54,180
Chris because this part in the film is

350
00:17:01,610 --> 00:16:58,230
is pretty extraordinary i we spent

351
00:17:03,290 --> 00:17:01,620
several months again like it suck you I

352
00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:03,300
could go into great detail on every

353
00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:04,740
interview that we secured because every

354
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:06,660
interview was a miracle I mean it got

355
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:08,880
within minutes of cancellation even down

356
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:12,090
to Senator Harry Reid but that was so

357
00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:15,090
precarious so tenuous miracle that we

358
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:16,920
pulled it off and and with and with

359
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:22,860
Christopher Mellon I went right into his

360
00:17:31,550 --> 00:17:26,970
efforts to to access what the government

361
00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:31,560
knows the evidence I I didn't I just

362
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:34,350
focused on that aspect of you know his

363
00:17:39,140 --> 00:17:36,450
position his level of access that he has

364
00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:39,150
I didn't realize and this is one of the

365
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:40,920
things we reveal in the film and he

366
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:41,910
rebuilt it himself

367
00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:44,130
I didn't realize what a large role he

368
00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:46,350
played in getting those tapes ended up

369
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:47,460
in the front page of the New York Times

370
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:49,740
out of the Pentagon that was Christopher

371
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:50,370
Mellon

372
00:17:55,550 --> 00:17:54,240
we are termed in a host of others and

373
00:17:57,770 --> 00:17:55,560
turned to fear lies where he was going

374
00:18:00,800 --> 00:17:57,780
to break the story they found a loophole

375
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:00,810
it bent ruled a little bit and they got

376
00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:02,610
those materials out of the Pentagon I

377
00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:05,790
didn't know that and that was that's

378
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:08,760
Christopher Mellon and and I also didn't

379
00:18:12,140 --> 00:18:09,570
realize

380
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:12,150
there's another really cool thing if you

381
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:14,490
need me to shut up - sure no no go go go

382
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,710
go please I didn't I I also didn't

383
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:18,240
realize there was a really cool

384
00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:19,890
discovery when we got together because

385
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:22,830
in the 90s I was interviewing mercury

386
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:24,960
astronaut Gordon Cooper about that

387
00:18:29,390 --> 00:18:26,370
infamous landing that happened at

388
00:18:32,180 --> 00:18:29,400
Edwards Air Force Base circa 1957 in

389
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,190
which they captured this disc that

390
00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:34,320
landed on the dry lake bed back in 1957

391
00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:35,940
with you know it I don't know sixteen

392
00:18:40,910 --> 00:18:39,150
millimeter or something and my interview

393
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:40,920
I was interviewing mercury Esther about

394
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:42,930
that and I brought that up many times in

395
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:44,880
several films because I think it's very

396
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:46,620
significant like that's pretty

397
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:48,510
compelling evidence it's been hidden

398
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:51,330
from us and I brought it up with Harry

399
00:18:56,420 --> 00:18:55,170
Reid phenomenal response and then for

400
00:18:58,460 --> 00:18:56,430
some reason I don't know I just brought

401
00:18:59,540 --> 00:18:58,470
it up with Christopher Mellon well it

402
00:19:00,110 --> 00:18:59,550
turns out during the Clinton

403
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:00,120
administration

404
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:01,650
Christopher Mellon in an official

405
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:04,650
capacity went after that footage with

406
00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:06,510
the Air Force like we know the school I

407
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:07,950
believe that murder astronaut Gordon

408
00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:09,450
Cooper even came to the White House and

409
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:11,700
talked about it with President Clinton

410
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:13,980
and and he got the green light

411
00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:15,330
Christopher Mellon got the green light

412
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:16,980
to go after it so while I was

413
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:19,620
interviewing Gordon Cooper in the 90s

414
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:21,210
Christopher Mellon was going back to the

415
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:22,710
very footage that I was you know it was

416
00:19:28,580 --> 00:19:26,610
just like this crazy coincidence you

417
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:28,590
know and so that that made it into the

418
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:32,850
film now I want to ask you on a personal

419
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:38,100
level when to have John Mac first off to

420
00:19:43,820 --> 00:19:40,410
to see him on screen like that in

421
00:19:48,620 --> 00:19:43,830
high-def is is is pretty incredible but

422
00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:48,630
to see the children at such a young age

423
00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:53,580
and and to have them share their their

424
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:55,830
accounts and and the drawings and all of

425
00:20:00,980 --> 00:19:57,450
those things you know watch the film

426
00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:00,990
it's there's no spoilers here I'm not

427
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:04,140
giving anything up but for you to have

428
00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:07,530
the opportunity to go back and see them

429
00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:11,190
as adults and and speak about their

430
00:20:20,830 --> 00:20:15,150
impact of what they went through for the

431
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:20,840
last 25 years for you what did that do

432
00:20:27,649 --> 00:20:23,220
you know it was

433
00:20:30,529 --> 00:20:27,659
so funny Randall nikkor knickers I think

434
00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:30,539
it is he's doing a film aerial phenomena

435
00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:32,220
believe that's what it's called pregnant

436
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:34,409
I'm wrong out there you guys but he's

437
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:36,120
been doing this film I think for ten

438
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:37,650
years he deserves a lot of credit

439
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:39,570
he's very instrumental in putting me in

440
00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:41,490
touch with the witnesses today it

441
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:43,350
helping me organize that I had to fight

442
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:45,570
like tooth and nail to get the one of my

443
00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:48,120
funders at the time because he kept

444
00:20:53,419 --> 00:20:50,190
going you know oh you mean to tell me a

445
00:20:56,539 --> 00:20:53,429
UFO landed in in Africa and then the

446
00:20:59,090 --> 00:20:56,549
beans got come on like I'm like no look

447
00:21:02,090 --> 00:20:59,100
at look at the archive footage because

448
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:02,100
we had to pay to fly everybody in from

449
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:03,510
all around the world and then put them

450
00:21:07,549 --> 00:21:05,700
up and then their per diem and really

451
00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:07,559
expensive and I kept saying please

452
00:21:11,870 --> 00:21:09,809
listen to me I'm telling you just look

453
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,880
at this archives material it'll be worth

454
00:21:16,190 --> 00:21:13,200
it these guys have never been brought

455
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:16,200
together in 20 years please begging him

456
00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:19,049
please anyway finally happened that came

457
00:21:23,539 --> 00:21:21,900
in from all different corners and it

458
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:23,549
turned out that a lot of them had been

459
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:25,860
standing next to each other during the

460
00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:28,440
encounter it's like and they hadn't seen

461
00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:30,780
each other in years like almost two

462
00:21:37,010 --> 00:21:35,100
decades and hear their accounts and

463
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:37,020
there were things that unfortunately you

464
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:38,730
know they ended up on the Edit room

465
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,690
floor and I don't know why but sometimes

466
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:44,640
it just works out that way but one of

467
00:21:50,659 --> 00:21:46,140
the things that astonished me the most

468
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:50,669
was that well - well they said if you've

469
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:51,780
ever been out in the war in the

470
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,960
wilderness and you come across a pretty

471
00:21:59,690 --> 00:21:56,400
rare sight you have a pretty rare

472
00:22:02,210 --> 00:21:59,700
sighting of a of a wild animal it's like

473
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:02,220
there's this moment of curiosity and

474
00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:05,159
intrigue mystery and there the animals

475
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:07,080
stopped and you're stopped and you're

476
00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:08,970
looking into each other's eyes and

477
00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:11,580
there's just like time stops and freezes

478
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,559
and it's like a totally benign

479
00:22:18,049 --> 00:22:15,360
experience but there's this curiosity

480
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:18,059
industry and they said that's that's

481
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:20,330
what it was like with the beans and

482
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:23,280
there were these that didn't make it

483
00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:25,110
into the film why I don't know it just

484
00:22:29,090 --> 00:22:27,390
didn't and then the other thing was this

485
00:22:32,270 --> 00:22:29,100
is the things that that moved me

486
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,280
profoundly at the time was there are

487
00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:34,559
these logs that would define the

488
00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:36,240
perimeter of the playground in Africa

489
00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:37,140
and brewers of

490
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:39,270
with Ariel school and the children

491
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:40,410
weren't allowed to go beyond that

492
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:41,850
because the grass wasn't mode and they

493
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:43,140
were dangerous snakes and spiders and

494
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:45,780
whatnot so they would define the outer

495
00:22:49,670 --> 00:22:47,490
perimeter of the playground with these

496
00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:49,680
logs and of course children being

497
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:51,300
children they would dance along the logs

498
00:22:56,690 --> 00:22:53,310
the outer as far as long as it you know

499
00:22:59,480 --> 00:22:56,700
you can go and these little beams

500
00:23:01,720 --> 00:22:59,490
according to the children now adults

501
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:01,730
were saying that they were merrily

502
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:05,280
dancing floating next to them as the

503
00:23:13,870 --> 00:23:08,130
children played on these skips on these

504
00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:13,880
logs one of the one of the statements

505
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:17,270
from one of the kids has a grown up

506
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:21,330
really moved me and if it's such a small

507
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:25,650
part of the film but it was the way I've

508
00:23:31,910 --> 00:23:28,410
never heard of quite this way where she

509
00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:31,920
said we were communicating

510
00:23:38,780 --> 00:23:34,860
you know telepathically but then it just

511
00:23:40,910 --> 00:23:38,790
stopped and the way that she and you

512
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:40,920
could tell that it impacted her back

513
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:45,570
then but today that is one of her

514
00:23:53,690 --> 00:23:50,210
memories of that is when it just stopped

515
00:23:56,660 --> 00:23:53,700
tremendous Candice moment it was at

516
00:24:02,120 --> 00:23:56,670
recess break 10:30 around 10:30 in the

517
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:02,130
morning and that is that the bell rang

518
00:24:06,410 --> 00:24:03,930
at the end of recess and that's

519
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:06,420
apparently when when when they did the

520
00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:07,950
the whole thing happened in broad

521
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:10,200
daylight it actually I went to ask her

522
00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:11,850
and I went to the school and I met this

523
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:14,280
I met one of the teachers duty Bates is

524
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:18,960
now the headmistress and she revealed

525
00:24:24,350 --> 00:24:21,810
stuff that you know basically confirmed

526
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:24,360
the whole event on camera and more

527
00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:25,440
details off-camera

528
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:27,780
she wasn't comfortable talking about but

529
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:30,570
um yeah the school bell rang and that's

530
00:24:34,460 --> 00:24:32,340
when that's when the encounter had

531
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:34,470
stopped and people often say it was 66

532
00:24:39,140 --> 00:24:36,780
children but I the teachers that I spoke

533
00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:39,150
to when I was there in Africa said there

534
00:24:44,110 --> 00:24:40,590
were about a hundred children it was

535
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:44,120
just that 66 actually went on camera and

536
00:24:50,860 --> 00:24:48,710
let's say it's kind of irony right

537
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:50,870
ironic what is what is true

538
00:25:00,010 --> 00:24:56,290
with crazy definitions but in this film

539
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:00,020
where we have two schools two elementary

540
00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:03,170
schools featured and what are the odds

541
00:25:09,670 --> 00:25:05,000
of that to the most incredible

542
00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:09,680
encounters nearly what 30 years apart I

543
00:25:15,930 --> 00:25:13,670
would say 1966 1994 so about 30 years

544
00:25:21,910 --> 00:25:15,940
apart but we're talking of course about

545
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:21,920
Westall 1966 in Australia another

546
00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:25,610
continent right a world apart but the

547
00:25:32,430 --> 00:25:29,980
same situation here where we have a

548
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:32,440
playground a school full of children

549
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:35,600
that witnessed this absolutely amazing

550
00:25:41,380 --> 00:25:38,330
event and they're still here today as

551
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:41,390
witnesses to talk about it and take us

552
00:25:46,210 --> 00:25:43,970
through West all again how important of

553
00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:46,220
a case is this for the world to see most

554
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:49,660
most had never even heard about it I

555
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:53,809
actually have Paola Harris to thank for

556
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:55,640
that because she is the one that tugged

557
00:25:59,650 --> 00:25:58,010
me grabbed me by the arm in it at a UFO

558
00:26:02,140 --> 00:25:59,660
conference and introduced me to this

559
00:26:06,010 --> 00:26:02,150
gentleman James Rigney an Australian

560
00:26:08,169 --> 00:26:06,020
researcher and and honestly like the

561
00:26:10,210 --> 00:26:08,179
response I have that I feel terrible

562
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:10,220
admitting this but I don't believe it

563
00:26:14,890 --> 00:26:12,050
when I first heard here of like a

564
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:14,900
landing case or a contact case I'm

565
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:17,690
highly dubious well you have to be up

566
00:26:22,030 --> 00:26:20,240
sure yeah like how how could this

567
00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:22,040
possibly have happened with that many

568
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:23,750
witnesses in broad daylight and the

569
00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:25,730
whole world don't know about it and so I

570
00:26:29,169 --> 00:26:27,470
was like oh yeah yeah laying another

571
00:26:31,410 --> 00:26:29,179
landing okay someone's trying to jump on

572
00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:31,420
the Jan the bandwagon and get you know

573
00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:33,950
but started looking into it more and

574
00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:36,980
more and then this gentleman Shane Ryan

575
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:38,350
had done a film on it I looked at that

576
00:26:44,590 --> 00:26:41,690
that's not wait a minute Wow there's

577
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:44,600
something here and we ended up going to

578
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:47,870
Australia for a month and actually one

579
00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:50,030
of the few trips that I was I was I was

580
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:51,620
able to bring my family with it was

581
00:26:58,150 --> 00:26:55,850
great and met with the witnesses and met

582
00:27:01,500 --> 00:26:58,160
with the school science teacher which

583
00:27:04,669 --> 00:27:01,510
he'll have to remain nameless but I had

584
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:04,679
all the

585
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:07,529
researchers in Australia I met with

586
00:27:10,489 --> 00:27:09,179
they're like that yeah he'll tell he'll

587
00:27:13,009 --> 00:27:10,499
never go on the record we've been trying

588
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:13,019
for 50 years or the better part of 50

589
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,730
years and then this other gentleman took

590
00:27:18,769 --> 00:27:16,320
a photograph of what could be the same

591
00:27:21,289 --> 00:27:18,779
object just 17 kilometers away two days

592
00:27:23,869 --> 00:27:21,299
earlier had taken a really color

593
00:27:25,159 --> 00:27:23,879
Polaroid picture and oh he won't go on

594
00:27:26,659 --> 00:27:25,169
the record either good luck you know I

595
00:27:31,899 --> 00:27:26,669
said just get me in the room with these

596
00:27:36,739 --> 00:27:34,759
miraculously that you hear from the

597
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:36,749
students and then you hear from the

598
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:39,690
science teacher who's also outside he

599
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:42,720
was an adult teacher and then you see a

600
00:27:46,940 --> 00:27:44,610
photograph that the guy took 17

601
00:27:49,369 --> 00:27:46,950
kilometers away of exactly what all the

602
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:49,379
other students had seen and it's such a

603
00:27:55,820 --> 00:27:53,610
compelling case that picture that's

604
00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:55,830
right I remember when he told me about

605
00:28:01,700 --> 00:27:58,049
the picture right like three years ago

606
00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:01,710
and I want to see it well you know I had

607
00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:04,440
to wait anyway that moment in the film

608
00:28:09,769 --> 00:28:06,840
and it's a Polaroid which I really did

609
00:28:13,299 --> 00:28:09,779
that part of it when that picture went

610
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:13,309
up on the screen my jaw hit the floor

611
00:28:19,789 --> 00:28:17,700
dad that was that's worth the price of

612
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:19,799
admission right there James what did you

613
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:21,090
what did you think when you first saw

614
00:28:26,629 --> 00:28:24,570
the picture well it was so precarious

615
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:26,639
the whole situation of getting this guy

616
00:28:31,879 --> 00:28:28,799
can't again we could do an entire radio

617
00:28:33,619 --> 00:28:31,889
show and just how that happened and I

618
00:28:35,509 --> 00:28:33,629
had James rig me and I believe I had

619
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:35,519
chain Ryan with me and then we had a

620
00:28:40,970 --> 00:28:38,460
camera a couple camera guys and you know

621
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:40,980
this guy no it's him coming forward he

622
00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:42,240
didn't want it he didn't want the

623
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:43,769
attention he didn't need the approval he

624
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:47,820
didn't want any of it and when he pulled

625
00:28:53,869 --> 00:28:50,700
that Polaroid out of the envelope and

626
00:28:58,369 --> 00:28:53,879
handed his me on a park bench inside he

627
00:29:00,379 --> 00:28:58,379
was in Melbourne I simply you know that

628
00:29:07,659 --> 00:29:00,389
sound when you when you turn on your

629
00:29:11,779 --> 00:29:07,669
computer and it goes that moment for me

630
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:11,789
it was so that that's what was captured

631
00:29:18,510 --> 00:29:14,220
right was that the first time you saw it

632
00:29:21,030 --> 00:29:18,520
oh my god yeah No

633
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:21,040
I mean in the film that wasn't like a

634
00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:24,720
reenactment that was the moment softer

635
00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:29,230
well played well played well played I

636
00:29:37,620 --> 00:29:35,350
mean in their West all again when you

637
00:29:38,940 --> 00:29:37,630
have your lips and ditches if I told you

638
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:38,950
how it happened but carry on

639
00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:43,840
well West all like roooaar West all is

640
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:47,350
is different than most other cases where

641
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:49,450
you've got one or two people or you know

642
00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:53,410
no eyewitnesses at all no evidence of

643
00:29:59,100 --> 00:29:55,990
the we're talking about you know one

644
00:30:01,500 --> 00:29:59,110
hundred two hundred witnesses all there

645
00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:01,510
at the same time and more than that

646
00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:03,100
that's right more than that that's right

647
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:06,100
pretty incredible schoolteacher told me

648
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:10,600
several hundred and the other part about

649
00:30:16,590 --> 00:30:13,570
West all I don't think you discussed

650
00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:16,600
this in the film but is that the local

651
00:30:23,850 --> 00:30:20,700
television station all of the original

652
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:23,860
video and anything that was captured

653
00:30:28,380 --> 00:30:26,530
there the tape with the tape was in the

654
00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:28,390
in the archives and the contents were

655
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:31,990
empty and and they're gone gone they're

656
00:30:36,570 --> 00:30:35,290
gone I went on that TV show and I said

657
00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:36,580
you guys were there you filmed

658
00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:38,260
everything they said yeah we went to the

659
00:30:43,250 --> 00:30:40,390
archive we got took out the the canister

660
00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:43,260
it was like it was marked contents gone

661
00:30:48,780 --> 00:30:46,390
let's take a break right here we will be

662
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:48,790
right back with our special surprise

663
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:50,890
guest right after this short break

664
00:30:54,810 --> 00:30:52,960
this is fade to black our guest tonight

665
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:54,820
James Fox we're talking about his new

666
00:31:00,090 --> 00:30:58,210
film the phenomenon so stay right there

667
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:00,100
we'll be right back this is the game

668
00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:03,610
changer network and cagey are a the

669
00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:05,230
planet are meals to me Church follow me

670
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:08,020
on Twitter @ JT radio I'll be right back

671
00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:08,880
stay with us

672
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:28,960
[Music]

673
00:31:35,170 --> 00:31:31,650
welcome back fade to black I am your

674
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:35,180
host Jimmy Church tonight is our

675
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:38,310
phenomenon special event with a director

676
00:31:46,910 --> 00:31:44,370
James Fox now this is an important film

677
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:46,920
and it is getting ready for release

678
00:31:52,670 --> 00:31:48,750
we're gonna be talking about all of that

679
00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:52,680
James a very big deal but now we are

680
00:31:58,670 --> 00:31:55,620
joined by this young man

681
00:32:02,750 --> 00:31:58,680
mr. Jacques Vallee Jacques good evening

682
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:02,760
how are you sir I'm getting younger and

683
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:05,600
younger at one time you and you say that

684
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:10,530
you know and you know this is a thing

685
00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:13,590
jock and thank you for coming in and

686
00:32:20,420 --> 00:32:17,700
joining us tonight and the community has

687
00:32:23,660 --> 00:32:20,430
such respect for you and your work and

688
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:23,670
your books over the years but here we

689
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:27,690
are in 2020 Jacques you know what this

690
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:30,510
is many decades later review pushing

691
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:33,810
this forward and we have this film today

692
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:36,240
how important do you think the

693
00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:38,610
phenomenon will be for the community in

694
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:41,580
the world well I think it it arrives

695
00:32:48,910 --> 00:32:44,930
exactly at the right time there was a

696
00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:48,920
very high-level event of interest from

697
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:51,680
from the new generation you know I mean

698
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:55,650
the subject has gone through a series of

699
00:33:03,700 --> 00:32:59,760
waves and it tends to fade fade away and

700
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:03,710
then reciting or some sensational event

701
00:33:10,340 --> 00:33:07,290
brings it up again and then there's a

702
00:33:14,780 --> 00:33:10,350
new wave of excitement a new generation

703
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:14,790
the problem is that people see only one

704
00:33:22,910 --> 00:33:19,650
particular slice of it at one time and

705
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:22,920
this movie because it goes into history

706
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:25,410
and because it's done with such high

707
00:33:33,860 --> 00:33:31,490
quality is going to really build a

708
00:33:36,770 --> 00:33:33,870
consensus about what the entire

709
00:33:39,170 --> 00:33:36,780
phenomenon is you know most people think

710
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:39,180
of it as a military thing I mean we've

711
00:33:44,419 --> 00:33:40,620
all seen the movies

712
00:33:46,489 --> 00:33:44,429
you know over the limits and so on some

713
00:33:50,869 --> 00:33:46,499
people think of it as only an American

714
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:50,879
thing and in the James in his Rudy

715
00:33:56,779 --> 00:33:53,730
brings in all the other things the

716
00:34:00,049 --> 00:33:56,789
military events only maybe ten percent

717
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:00,059
of the whole phenomenon and the military

718
00:34:06,619 --> 00:34:03,480
is constrained by its locations and by

719
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:06,629
its gadgets which are very good it's

720
00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:09,450
constrained to a particular type of

721
00:34:15,260 --> 00:34:12,270
observation you know a farmer in Kansas

722
00:34:17,210 --> 00:34:15,270
or the tribe driver in France or in

723
00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:17,220
Russia is going to see something

724
00:34:23,059 --> 00:34:20,280
different so the movie takes all of that

725
00:34:28,309 --> 00:34:23,069
into account and let me tell you that

726
00:34:32,859 --> 00:34:28,319
the work that the team that James has

727
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:32,869
assembled is of such high quality that

728
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:35,250
people will be blown away when they see

729
00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:38,879
it and there's there's another aspect to

730
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:41,639
this that I'm very excited about and

731
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:46,730
it's this this is a theatrical release

732
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:49,649
right this is in movie theaters across

733
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:53,280
the country where you're gonna have the

734
00:34:59,630 --> 00:34:55,770
UFO community go out and see the film

735
00:35:02,630 --> 00:34:59,640
but it's also going to be exposed to the

736
00:35:04,579 --> 00:35:02,640
country and with that you have to have

737
00:35:07,819 --> 00:35:04,589
those standards met for a theatrical

738
00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:07,829
release it has to be cinematic it has to

739
00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:10,260
sound wonderful it's got to have all of

740
00:35:16,010 --> 00:35:12,750
that perfection in there but this time

741
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:16,020
it's a UFO documentary and we've got

742
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:18,530
that going for us how exciting is that

743
00:35:24,589 --> 00:35:21,420
for the world to finally have this out

744
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:24,599
in front in a commercial in a commercial

745
00:35:31,089 --> 00:35:27,720
sense well I don't think there has been

746
00:35:35,089 --> 00:35:31,099
anything like it in terms of a

747
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:35,099
nonfiction presentation there has been

748
00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:39,930
as you know tremendous fiction films

749
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:42,900
made that were extraordinary that try to

750
00:35:50,660 --> 00:35:47,040
approximate what what was really going

751
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:50,670
on but this is nonfiction and I think

752
00:36:00,530 --> 00:35:54,350
it's going to grab people from the first

753
00:36:06,020 --> 00:36:00,540
you know the first slide and go on go on

754
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:06,030
from there but what's important to me I

755
00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:07,770
think had you know the privilege of

756
00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:09,480
working on it

757
00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:13,380
to some extent with dreams is that what

758
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:16,380
we see are the people it's not just one

759
00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:18,870
case after another after another like

760
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:20,790
some of those documentaries you see on

761
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:26,160
TV the the movie really goes into what

762
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:28,680
happened to these people where did they

763
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:31,290
come from who were they you know what

764
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:33,570
how did their family how did their

765
00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:36,720
neighbors react to what they saw and

766
00:36:42,770 --> 00:36:40,470
what they said and and I think people

767
00:36:46,430 --> 00:36:42,780
will react to the Jersey human quality

768
00:36:49,220 --> 00:36:46,440
of it which to some extent you know is

769
00:36:52,220 --> 00:36:49,230
shown by documentaries but again the

770
00:36:54,050 --> 00:36:52,230
documentaries try to make a point about

771
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:54,060
one case after another after another

772
00:36:59,780 --> 00:36:55,410
this isn't it

773
00:37:02,540 --> 00:36:59,790
this really tells the the story from

774
00:37:05,090 --> 00:37:02,550
both of historical in the JA graphic

775
00:37:08,570 --> 00:37:05,100
point of view and I think they deem

776
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:08,580
practically to be very profound

777
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:11,310
well you have always tried to push that

778
00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:15,210
part of it the the human element side of

779
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,190
it the psychological side the emotional

780
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:19,920
side the impact that it has on

781
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,500
individuals not only with sightings but

782
00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:24,960
possibly abductions and direct contact

783
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:28,920
and you're right so much has been made

784
00:37:34,490 --> 00:37:32,400
in the past about what was the ship like

785
00:37:37,490 --> 00:37:34,500
what was the ship like in the inside

786
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:37,500
what you know the sensational sides of

787
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:40,380
things and always took the focus away

788
00:37:47,450 --> 00:37:44,310
from the human element and the impact

789
00:37:50,450 --> 00:37:47,460
it's had on individuals was this you

790
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:50,460
pushing James to go in this direction or

791
00:37:55,610 --> 00:37:53,250
was James already going he wanted to go

792
00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:55,620
in that direction I think what I brought

793
00:38:00,940 --> 00:37:57,660
contrary to what you were saying earlier

794
00:38:04,660 --> 00:38:00,950
you know I'm old enough to remember

795
00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:04,670
working actually with dr. Hynek and

796
00:38:09,770 --> 00:38:06,870
meeting the people at the Conan

797
00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:09,780
committee we were Alan Hynek and I were

798
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:13,590
the first scientists to testify in in

799
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:18,410
Boulder before the the Condon group and

800
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:22,560
you know I remember going to write Paris

801
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:25,410
an air force base to meet with the staff

802
00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:28,170
of Project Blue Book and a major

803
00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:32,270
quintanilla and what happened there so I

804
00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:36,390
what I was able to contribute was that

805
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:40,020
extra dimension of the human motivation

806
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:44,400
and also to some extent the this is

807
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:46,470
something that bothers me when I look at

808
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,010
points on TV as good as it may be but

809
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:53,280
you know in in some cases but the

810
00:39:00,380 --> 00:38:55,890
motivations of the organization's behind

811
00:39:05,740 --> 00:39:00,390
it I think the Air Force is not fairly

812
00:39:08,450 --> 00:39:05,750
represented in the whole history we

813
00:39:11,950 --> 00:39:08,460
there is a consensus that there was some

814
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:11,960
sort of cover-up from the government and

815
00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:16,050
that that can be meant in in a variety

816
00:39:24,380 --> 00:39:21,030
of ways and there was reluctance at

817
00:39:27,380 --> 00:39:24,390
different times to deal with the

818
00:39:31,580 --> 00:39:27,390
phenomenon at all or if they had to deal

819
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:31,590
with it to really get the scientific

820
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:34,680
community involved well I think this

821
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,250
this movie is going to get at least some

822
00:39:43,070 --> 00:39:41,040
of the scientific community involved I

823
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:43,080
can tell you in you know in Silicon

824
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:45,600
Valley people are not waiting for

825
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:47,790
permission to do something when they

826
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:50,910
think there is some some discovery to be

827
00:39:58,460 --> 00:39:55,980
made and that's not exactly public but

828
00:40:02,120 --> 00:39:58,470
there are a number of scientists who are

829
00:40:06,910 --> 00:40:02,130
involved now working with you know more

830
00:40:10,010 --> 00:40:06,920
than ever working with international

831
00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:10,020
friends and colleagues and trying to

832
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:11,790
assemble the evidence when you look at

833
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:14,250
it without asking anybody's permission

834
00:40:19,850 --> 00:40:16,980
and you know in Silicon Valley you can

835
00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:19,860
do a lot of things without money because

836
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,830
you know equipment is available and when

837
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:24,480
people are interested they all work over

838
00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:26,610
the weekend and you know their work at

839
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:29,100
night and we'll get this thing done and

840
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:32,480
analyze and I think that's the spirit

841
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:36,090
and you know I think that the movie

842
00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:39,090
brings that up pretty well so we're

843
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:44,220
going to see some changes the the film

844
00:40:53,780 --> 00:40:47,820
of the United Nations which I had never

845
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:53,790
seen before by the way I've seen

846
00:41:01,100 --> 00:40:57,410
pictures and I had seen low quality

847
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:01,110
video but I have not seen I mean it's

848
00:41:06,970 --> 00:41:03,680
extraordinary and I know how much work

849
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:06,980
went on by the team by Jane's team

850
00:41:16,990 --> 00:41:12,570
behind the scene to get this I you know

851
00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:17,000
it's remarkable well it's in color

852
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:21,960
absolutely it's it's it's the what do

853
00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:24,510
they call it the the tell us any the

854
00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:28,140
conversion of film to digital is spot-on

855
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:30,630
for the film it's really good but let me

856
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:32,160
ask you this though Jacques when you go

857
00:41:38,450 --> 00:41:35,850
and you watch those scenes at the

858
00:41:40,460 --> 00:41:38,460
hearings for the United Nations and you

859
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:40,470
think about how long ago you and Lee

860
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:44,850
Spiegel did that together we're in 2001

861
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:48,510
yeah yeah and we're 2040 did you expect

862
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:51,420
us to be further along the road with the

863
00:42:02,060 --> 00:41:56,910
question of UFOs or are we further than

864
00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:02,070
what you thought we would be no I think

865
00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:07,740
we went in thinking that already at that

866
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,460
time the evidence and I'm using that

867
00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:13,680
term carefully because it means

868
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:15,000
different things for different people

869
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:19,770
but surveillance was so strong and you

870
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,040
know we had witnesses with us who were

871
00:42:28,610 --> 00:42:25,920
extraordinarily convincing like Captain

872
00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:28,620
Coyne who was was in involved in the

873
00:42:35,370 --> 00:42:31,780
helicopter case you know

874
00:42:38,940 --> 00:42:35,380
that happened in Ohio that when he told

875
00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:38,950
that story the entire room was you know

876
00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:42,550
was silent was frozen one of the

877
00:42:48,510 --> 00:42:45,790
delegates from one of the countries said

878
00:42:51,590 --> 00:42:48,520
well what what did you do captain when

879
00:42:55,620 --> 00:42:51,600
you realize you were trying to land and

880
00:42:59,100 --> 00:42:55,630
something was pulling you up and he said

881
00:43:02,720 --> 00:42:59,110
very calmly sir I closed my eyes and

882
00:43:06,570 --> 00:43:02,730
prepared to die okay now this is a

883
00:43:10,290 --> 00:43:06,580
military man who knows that the

884
00:43:13,020 --> 00:43:10,300
situation is out of his control and that

885
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:13,030
there is something that is pulling this

886
00:43:19,820 --> 00:43:16,720
large helicopter with with these army

887
00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:19,830
officers we had just passed by the way a

888
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:23,470
visual and on I exam so they could

889
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:26,380
continue to fly helicopters so there is

890
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:29,410
no there is no argument that maybe they

891
00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:31,930
you know they were chasing a flock of

892
00:43:39,890 --> 00:43:37,150
birds or something this was real and we

893
00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:39,900
thought that kind of testimony would

894
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:43,630
impress at least some of the people and

895
00:43:50,580 --> 00:43:46,810
the proposal that was made was not

896
00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:50,590
expensive it was just to help coordinate

897
00:43:57,330 --> 00:43:54,100
the work that was already going on in a

898
00:43:59,100 --> 00:43:57,340
number of countries as you know I'm I'm

899
00:44:03,450 --> 00:43:59,110
a member of the scientific advisory

900
00:44:09,330 --> 00:44:03,460
board for the French Space Agency on on

901
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:09,340
this subject and the that committee has

902
00:44:16,770 --> 00:44:13,210
existed since the seventies and

903
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:16,780
continuously so the interest is there by

904
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:19,270
the number of countries openly and

905
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:23,350
what's needed now is a true coordination

906
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:27,970
effort and another point an

907
00:44:33,810 --> 00:44:30,160
extraordinary moment in the film is when

908
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:33,820
the subject is brought forward by James

909
00:44:40,530 --> 00:44:39,010
with metamaterials and you I can I'm not

910
00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:40,540
giving away anything from the film

911
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:42,760
everybody just relax

912
00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:47,650
there is a shot with you holding three

913
00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:50,950
containers and you start to discuss this

914
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:54,180
when we get into su the metamaterials

915
00:45:00,900 --> 00:44:58,930
discussion not only for the UFO

916
00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:00,910
community but for the world in general

917
00:45:07,859 --> 00:45:04,150
now we're taking a big step forward away

918
00:45:10,590 --> 00:45:07,869
from video film eyewitness testimony to

919
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:10,600
something physical so when we're talking

920
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:13,410
about metamaterials are we talking about

921
00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:18,640
small traces granular materials or are

922
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:20,830
we talking about something that is

923
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:26,290
larger and more tangible so you know I

924
00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:31,140
don't want to invade your question the

925
00:45:40,170 --> 00:45:36,580
at this point we not sure of what we

926
00:45:42,270 --> 00:45:40,180
have right K now people have been

927
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:42,280
talking about metal materials you know

928
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:45,280
we're doing this look we have this we're

929
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:46,690
going to study it and so on

930
00:45:50,910 --> 00:45:48,730
and we're the first ones doing that

931
00:45:53,820 --> 00:45:50,920
that's not true I mean that research has

932
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:53,830
been going on for 40 years if you

933
00:45:58,380 --> 00:45:56,410
remember there was an explosion of an

934
00:46:04,440 --> 00:45:58,390
object that has never been identified

935
00:46:08,580 --> 00:46:04,450
over ubatuba in Brazil in 1957 professor

936
00:46:12,330 --> 00:46:08,590
arc at Stanford who is found at the

937
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:12,340
plasma Research Center in physics

938
00:46:18,090 --> 00:46:15,280
department in Stanford has done

939
00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:18,100
extensive study of that material it had

940
00:46:27,180 --> 00:46:21,060
been studied by several other groups and

941
00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:27,190
I brought back some two more samples

942
00:46:33,450 --> 00:46:30,700
that were unknown at the time from one

943
00:46:36,570 --> 00:46:33,460
former level fountas who was a primary

944
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:36,580
researcher in Brazil at the time and

945
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:40,330
another one from a an Argentinean sailor

946
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:44,830
who was in orbit around picked up some

947
00:46:50,220 --> 00:46:48,010
of the material we we have read now so

948
00:46:52,650 --> 00:46:50,230
we have plenty of material and we are

949
00:46:55,050 --> 00:46:52,660
retesting it comparing it to the

950
00:46:57,330 --> 00:46:55,060
material that Professor Chirac was

951
00:47:01,590 --> 00:46:57,340
clearly enough to give me

952
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:01,600
from his own collections and but this is

953
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:04,480
difficult this is difficult science this

954
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:07,420
is difficult technology and it may lead

955
00:47:14,070 --> 00:47:11,170
to you know pretty mundane results

956
00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:14,080
although we already know that the

957
00:47:23,250 --> 00:47:18,430
material could be made on earth but why

958
00:47:25,350 --> 00:47:23,260
would anybody do that in 1957 you that

959
00:47:27,690 --> 00:47:25,360
particular material we already know and

960
00:47:31,350 --> 00:47:27,700
there are a number of publications about

961
00:47:35,180 --> 00:47:31,360
this in the scientific literature again

962
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:35,190
going back 30 40 years so we are we

963
00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:37,930
really meaning this and that's what you

964
00:47:44,430 --> 00:47:41,380
do in science we have new material from

965
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:44,440
that case and other cases and you just

966
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:47,440
go over what has been done by your

967
00:47:52,290 --> 00:47:49,450
colleagues and you know we're standing

968
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:52,300
on the shoulders of very very good

969
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:54,490
researchers who did that in their own

970
00:48:00,570 --> 00:47:57,520
time with very little money but did it

971
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:00,580
professionally and that's what we'll

972
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:04,210
continue to do now if you're asking me

973
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:07,920
do I have you know the control panel

974
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:11,650
vice-versa from Alpha Centauri no I can

975
00:48:19,890 --> 00:48:16,810
I can assure you we if we had that we

976
00:48:23,070 --> 00:48:19,900
would have a different conversation we

977
00:48:26,190 --> 00:48:23,080
have intriguing materials and we just

978
00:48:32,130 --> 00:48:26,200
have to do but if you if you look at my

979
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:32,140
website you know doctor Gary Nolan and I

980
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:34,450
made a presentation which is on the

981
00:48:38,250 --> 00:48:34,930
website

982
00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:38,260
I made that presentation based on our

983
00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:42,700
first analyses and in Paris about three

984
00:48:48,270 --> 00:48:45,880
years ago they were this was a private

985
00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:48,280
presentation they were only about two

986
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,680
hundred people in the room who it had

987
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:52,960
not been advertised many of them were

988
00:48:59,940 --> 00:48:57,610
scientists there was one man in his 50s

989
00:49:03,480 --> 00:48:59,950
who obviously came from one of the

990
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:03,490
French academic labs and he said this is

991
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:05,920
fine you're showing us some new stuff

992
00:49:10,570 --> 00:49:09,730
some interesting isotopic analysis you

993
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:10,580
have to go

994
00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:13,520
beyond the component itself you have to

995
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:16,520
go to the level of the isotopes which is

996
00:49:20,170 --> 00:49:18,170
difficult and expensive

997
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:20,180
he said that's good that you're doing

998
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,200
this but you only have two data points

999
00:49:29,530 --> 00:49:26,240
you have to redo it with different

1000
00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:29,540
instruments with different beams going

1001
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:31,510
to different places in the material

1002
00:49:38,260 --> 00:49:34,610
before the scientific community will

1003
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:38,270
really look at it seriously so he was

1004
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,210
right yes and you know that's what you

1005
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:43,760
do in science you you just don't have

1006
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:46,880
one measurement and you rush to the New

1007
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:50,390
York Times to announce the discovery you

1008
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:52,610
know that's not the way it happens so we

1009
00:49:58,690 --> 00:49:54,730
want to do it right and we want to

1010
00:50:03,720 --> 00:49:58,700
invite you know people who have that

1011
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:03,730
kind of material to to contact us and

1012
00:50:12,580 --> 00:50:08,930
our colleagues even the skeptics may

1013
00:50:16,570 --> 00:50:12,590
have some very good advice how very

1014
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:16,580
specialized area yeah I had read I'm

1015
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:19,760
gonna make this really quick this is

1016
00:50:28,060 --> 00:50:23,680
about three weeks ago that 70% of

1017
00:50:34,810 --> 00:50:28,070
scientists and researchers 70% cannot

1018
00:50:37,390 --> 00:50:34,820
repeat their own experiments you have to

1019
00:50:40,030 --> 00:50:37,400
continue the testing you can't just base

1020
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:40,040
everything on one set of results that's

1021
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:42,170
what you have to do one of you has to

1022
00:50:45,790 --> 00:50:44,000
compare it to what your colleagues have

1023
00:50:47,410 --> 00:50:45,800
done and by the way some of that

1024
00:50:50,290 --> 00:50:47,420
material we're going to make available

1025
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:50,300
to other labs in Europe you know people

1026
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:54,140
who are ready to to work on it who are

1027
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:55,610
very competent and it has a right

1028
00:50:59,710 --> 00:50:57,680
instrument that's the only way it can be

1029
00:51:04,080 --> 00:50:59,720
done it's the only way Jacques I want to

1030
00:51:06,700 --> 00:51:04,090
ask you this and and James is probably

1031
00:51:09,580 --> 00:51:06,710
going to chuckle at this question but

1032
00:51:14,170 --> 00:51:09,590
it's a it's a real one you've been doing

1033
00:51:17,259 --> 00:51:14,180
this for a very long time and the the

1034
00:51:20,890 --> 00:51:17,269
critics out there

1035
00:51:23,710 --> 00:51:20,900
always push the issue of the world is

1036
00:51:27,490 --> 00:51:23,720
not ready I don't know what the world

1037
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:27,500
was like in 1970 and and the feeling of

1038
00:51:35,109 --> 00:51:29,089
things out there I was only eight years

1039
00:51:37,269 --> 00:51:35,119
old but today I feel that we are ready

1040
00:51:40,779 --> 00:51:37,279
that I die I think everybody's

1041
00:51:44,289 --> 00:51:40,789
acclimated to it is the world ready are

1042
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:44,299
we gonna freak out about the existence

1043
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:47,690
of UFOs and alien contact or is it just

1044
00:51:53,740 --> 00:51:51,950
going to be another day at the races I I

1045
00:51:57,069 --> 00:51:53,750
don't think it's going to be another day

1046
00:52:00,670 --> 00:51:57,079
at the races I think if you ask the

1047
00:52:04,029 --> 00:52:00,680
witnesses which I know you've done they

1048
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:04,039
will tell you that this is not just some

1049
00:52:11,410 --> 00:52:08,710
nice spacecraft you know from from Venus

1050
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:11,420
this is profound and it's going to

1051
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:14,240
change a lot of things when we recognize

1052
00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:17,569
it it's how to recognize and we should

1053
00:52:24,819 --> 00:52:21,049
not lead with our preconceived ideas of

1054
00:52:27,999 --> 00:52:24,829
what it is it's very complex what has

1055
00:52:31,150 --> 00:52:28,009
changed is that you know in in the 50s

1056
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:31,160
60s there were reasons for the

1057
00:52:37,539 --> 00:52:33,410
government to want to control the

1058
00:52:43,210 --> 00:52:37,549
information people probably would have

1059
00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:43,220
freaked out some did and there was

1060
00:52:47,380 --> 00:52:45,950
another little unknown from the point of

1061
00:52:50,140 --> 00:52:47,390
view from the strategic point of view

1062
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:50,150
and the military point of view is it a

1063
00:52:59,950 --> 00:52:54,650
secret weapon somebody has what are the

1064
00:53:04,539 --> 00:52:59,960
you know why is it here is how come it

1065
00:53:08,769 --> 00:53:04,549
can violate our airspace ignore the

1066
00:53:12,099 --> 00:53:08,779
radar follow our rockets you know follow

1067
00:53:17,319 --> 00:53:12,109
our aircraft carriers I mean the Nimitz

1068
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:17,329
is not the first one right so what there

1069
00:53:23,710 --> 00:53:20,240
was to some extent a legitimate concern

1070
00:53:27,490 --> 00:53:23,720
and legitimate concern to keep it secret

1071
00:53:30,970 --> 00:53:27,500
actually until there could be some

1072
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:30,980
determination well we

1073
00:53:36,730 --> 00:53:33,020
you know we don't need to be initiated

1074
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:36,740
into those secrets to know that they

1075
00:53:42,060 --> 00:53:39,010
haven't found anything if they had found

1076
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:42,070
anti-gravity by now we would not be

1077
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:46,130
trying so hard to get back to space did

1078
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:49,310
you realize that there hasn't been a

1079
00:53:56,020 --> 00:53:52,640
rocket going into space from the United

1080
00:53:59,650 --> 00:53:56,030
States carrying an astronaut in the last

1081
00:54:05,410 --> 00:53:59,660
eight years it's incredible it is

1082
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:05,420
incredible and you know I remember in my

1083
00:54:10,450 --> 00:54:07,130
house you know with my wife and my two

1084
00:54:15,460 --> 00:54:10,460
kids fifty years ago watching two guys

1085
00:54:19,660 --> 00:54:15,470
you know landing on the moon the fact

1086
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:19,670
that now when we go back to our unit I

1087
00:54:26,140 --> 00:54:22,610
will module into Space Station you have

1088
00:54:29,260 --> 00:54:26,150
to take a you know a flight to you know

1089
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:29,270
to Russia or to someplace close to

1090
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:32,810
Russia to use a Russian rocket to go

1091
00:54:39,010 --> 00:54:35,570
there and that we have not had a

1092
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:39,020
capability for eight years to go to you

1093
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:40,970
know Space Station that to a large

1094
00:54:47,050 --> 00:54:44,930
extent we built is incredible so if we

1095
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:47,060
hadn't a gravity I mean this you know

1096
00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:49,730
this would not be an issue we would not

1097
00:54:57,340 --> 00:54:52,700
be talking about it now so the problem

1098
00:55:00,040 --> 00:54:57,350
has proven I think much more difficult

1099
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:00,050
than people thought scientists can be

1100
00:55:04,570 --> 00:55:02,450
very arrogant you know give me a piece

1101
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:04,580
of that and I'm going to analyze it over

1102
00:55:09,660 --> 00:55:06,530
the weekend and I'll tell you what it

1103
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:09,670
does well that doesn't that didn't work

1104
00:55:18,250 --> 00:55:13,040
it's it's a complex problem you need to

1105
00:55:20,110 --> 00:55:18,260
look at it in history and I think James

1106
00:55:23,380 --> 00:55:20,120
hired me because I'm old enough to

1107
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:23,390
remember some of the history and I've

1108
00:55:28,540 --> 00:55:25,910
also as you know done research in in a

1109
00:55:31,420 --> 00:55:28,550
more ancient history with with a group

1110
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:31,430
of people who were passionate about that

1111
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:33,440
and we published a couple of books about

1112
00:55:38,770 --> 00:55:36,770
that so this is all I've also you know

1113
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:38,780
remember the presentation I made where

1114
00:55:44,110 --> 00:55:41,090
you were coming enough to introduce me

1115
00:55:47,110 --> 00:55:44,120
last year right about the use of article

1116
00:55:50,140 --> 00:55:47,120
your intelligence to screen that data

1117
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:50,150
and we have those tools and the

1118
00:55:56,140 --> 00:55:52,160
presentation I made was about an AI

1119
00:55:58,300 --> 00:55:56,150
program that I developed in 1985 okay

1120
00:56:00,490 --> 00:55:58,310
and there are people now saying oh you

1121
00:56:03,610 --> 00:56:00,500
know we're going to use AI one of these

1122
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:03,620
days well AI has been available I mean

1123
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:06,850
that form of a I was already

1124
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:10,610
sufficiently developed in 1985 to be

1125
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:13,040
used to help in this research why didn't

1126
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:17,210
we do it okay why are we just looking at

1127
00:56:25,450 --> 00:56:21,050
it as a novelty when we have develop

1128
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:25,460
those those algorithms to a sufficient

1129
00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:28,370
point to start using them they're not

1130
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:31,310
going to tell us exactly what UFOs are

1131
00:56:37,180 --> 00:56:33,530
where they come from and so on but they

1132
00:56:39,850 --> 00:56:37,190
can help us save time and money in doing

1133
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:39,860
a research we have that and now we're

1134
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:44,450
not in 85 anymore in 2020 and we we have

1135
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:47,810
I don't need to tell you computers that

1136
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:51,650
are much more capable and software

1137
00:56:58,090 --> 00:56:55,040
that's developed way beyond what we had

1138
00:57:00,190 --> 00:56:58,100
then the problem remains the same you

1139
00:57:02,650 --> 00:57:00,200
know we will keep looking at the problem

1140
00:57:05,110 --> 00:57:02,660
with better and better instrumentation

1141
00:57:07,540 --> 00:57:05,120
better and better software better and

1142
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:07,550
better intelligence that's what's

1143
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:10,310
changing and I think in some extent of

1144
00:57:18,090 --> 00:57:12,890
government and I think the intelligence

1145
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:18,100
community the military communities is

1146
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:21,650
would relax if if the scientific

1147
00:57:27,310 --> 00:57:24,710
community stepped up and took over at

1148
00:57:35,230 --> 00:57:27,320
least parts of the problem I wanted to

1149
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:35,240
ask you this one of the things about you

1150
00:57:42,660 --> 00:57:39,410
Jacque is that most including myself

1151
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:42,670
okay I'll just call the right most

1152
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:46,400
people think that you've got knowledge

1153
00:57:53,830 --> 00:57:51,200
and you know things that you can't share

1154
00:57:56,050 --> 00:57:53,840
so let's leave I'm gonna push that in

1155
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:56,060
the background for a second but the

1156
00:58:02,050 --> 00:57:57,680
other side of it is

1157
00:58:05,350 --> 00:58:02,060
the government is sitting on actual data

1158
00:58:07,810 --> 00:58:05,360
and facts and maybe debris in a crash

1159
00:58:12,340 --> 00:58:07,820
saucer and maybe an alien body or two

1160
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:12,350
that they are not disclosing what side

1161
00:58:16,930 --> 00:58:14,090
of the fence are you on do you think

1162
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:16,940
that the government is sitting on that

1163
00:58:24,820 --> 00:58:20,810
kind of information well you're asking

1164
00:58:30,030 --> 00:58:24,830
me several questions here I I do have

1165
00:58:33,330 --> 00:58:30,040
information that I have not shared the

1166
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:33,340
but that's different from having insight

1167
00:58:39,130 --> 00:58:37,280
every scientist has you know some deep

1168
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:39,140
when you've looked at something for a

1169
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:42,050
long time whether it's cancer or you

1170
00:58:49,450 --> 00:58:46,850
know galaxies or whatever you develop

1171
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:49,460
some insights that you're just not sure

1172
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:52,730
of you're not ready to publish them you

1173
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:55,130
might discuss them with with close

1174
00:59:00,970 --> 00:58:57,440
colleagues but you're not ready to go

1175
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:00,980
public with them I think many of us in

1176
00:59:07,300 --> 00:59:05,090
this field have such insights and I

1177
00:59:09,670 --> 00:59:07,310
think one of the other things we should

1178
00:59:12,670 --> 00:59:09,680
do is start sharing sharing those

1179
00:59:15,610 --> 00:59:12,680
insights right but probably not publicly

1180
00:59:20,740 --> 00:59:15,620
probably not on the TV special but just

1181
00:59:25,150 --> 00:59:20,750
to you know compare notes the other

1182
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:25,160
thing is we know for a fact that things

1183
00:59:30,610 --> 00:59:27,680
have been recovered that have

1184
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:30,620
disappeared somewhere they may have

1185
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:33,890
disappeared in somebody's basement who's

1186
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:38,570
given up on studying it but I have a lot

1187
00:59:43,530 --> 00:59:40,130
of respect for people in that community

1188
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:43,540
I don't think I think many of them are

1189
00:59:49,230 --> 00:59:46,850
good scientists and they are curious and

1190
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:49,240
they would have continued to work on it

1191
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:52,490
there may be a good reason for them not

1192
00:59:58,780 --> 00:59:56,210
to talk about it because they don't see

1193
01:00:01,660 --> 00:59:58,790
in that was certainly true of the Air

1194
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:01,670
Force by the way when I was discussing

1195
01:00:08,250 --> 01:00:05,210
it with major quintanilla and so on they

1196
01:00:11,059 --> 01:00:08,260
did not see in the scientific community

1197
01:00:14,660 --> 01:00:11,069
anybody who was ready

1198
01:00:18,349 --> 01:00:14,670
to to to start doing the research

1199
01:00:22,130 --> 01:00:18,359
seriously so they were sitting on data

1200
01:00:26,029 --> 01:00:22,140
that they didn't know you know how to

1201
01:00:30,259 --> 01:00:26,039
give it to somebody and I think that

1202
01:00:33,499 --> 01:00:30,269
impression was reinforced you know the

1203
01:00:35,329 --> 01:00:33,509
Condon study which was a joke so if

1204
01:00:38,299 --> 01:00:35,339
that's what the scientific community

1205
01:00:41,749 --> 01:00:38,309
does when you give them good data you

1206
01:00:43,699 --> 01:00:41,759
know that's pretty discouraging and by

1207
01:00:45,019 --> 01:00:43,709
the way it wasn't just the Condon study

1208
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:45,029
it was the New York Times

1209
01:00:51,049 --> 01:00:47,910
it was the Academy of Sciences it was

1210
01:00:55,219 --> 01:00:51,059
all of that so if you were sitting in

1211
01:00:59,180 --> 01:00:55,229
why would you risk your your career you

1212
01:01:04,009 --> 01:00:59,190
know as an intelligence analyst

1213
01:01:08,329 --> 01:01:04,019
somewhere or as military officer with

1214
01:01:11,359 --> 01:01:08,339
access to data to evolve with materials

1215
01:01:14,059 --> 01:01:11,369
why would you risk your career by going

1216
01:01:15,620 --> 01:01:14,069
public with it when you know that the

1217
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:15,630
scientific community is going to laugh

1218
01:01:21,620 --> 01:01:18,089
at it we have that's what we have to

1219
01:01:23,029 --> 01:01:21,630
change and starting with public again

1220
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:23,039
that comes back to the movie

1221
01:01:31,219 --> 01:01:28,170
right so is there more data yes on the

1222
01:01:33,049 --> 01:01:31,229
other hand many of these people are you

1223
01:01:35,209 --> 01:01:33,059
know in a basement somewhere literally

1224
01:01:37,729 --> 01:01:35,219
they haven't done what I've done

1225
01:01:40,849 --> 01:01:37,739
I mean I've you know I've gone to Brazil

1226
01:01:44,299 --> 01:01:40,859
four times extensively has gone through

1227
01:01:49,009 --> 01:01:44,309
Argentina several times I know friends

1228
01:01:51,529 --> 01:01:49,019
pretty well and then in other countries

1229
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:51,539
in South America have gone to Russia six

1230
01:01:59,150 --> 01:01:54,569
times and I know the people who are

1231
01:02:04,339 --> 01:01:59,160
doing the research there and the the

1232
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:04,349
data is available if you're serious and

1233
01:02:13,059 --> 01:02:09,930
you gain what you have to gain is the

1234
01:02:17,329 --> 01:02:13,069
trust of people it's not a question of

1235
01:02:20,509 --> 01:02:17,339
time and money so much the money could

1236
01:02:24,530 --> 01:02:20,519
help to some extent but we've done a lot

1237
01:02:27,500 --> 01:02:24,540
of stuff with no money and if

1238
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:27,510
be told a lot of great companies have

1239
01:02:35,410 --> 01:02:30,240
been built here in Silicon Valley with

1240
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:35,420
no money at least the prototype

1241
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:40,410
including the transistor and the

1242
01:02:45,980 --> 01:02:43,050
integrated circuit and things like that

1243
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:45,990
under many came once there was something

1244
01:02:53,930 --> 01:02:49,530
in the lab network but people had to

1245
01:02:57,980 --> 01:02:53,940
spend their own time very often or risk

1246
01:03:00,320 --> 01:02:57,990
getting fired by working on new ideas in

1247
01:03:02,750 --> 01:03:00,330
Silicon Valley before they could get too

1248
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:02,760
many I think what you need to do is gain

1249
01:03:09,590 --> 01:03:05,520
the trust of young colleagues here and

1250
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:09,600
overseas and within the government that

1251
01:03:19,070 --> 01:03:11,610
you're serious and you're not doing this

1252
01:03:22,070 --> 01:03:19,080
just to know to to be regarded as some

1253
01:03:24,770 --> 01:03:22,080
some great some great scientist but

1254
01:03:26,990 --> 01:03:24,780
you're doing it to with the hope to

1255
01:03:31,070 --> 01:03:27,000
build a team and to get some results I

1256
01:03:32,510 --> 01:03:31,080
want to thank you jock and also I'm

1257
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:32,520
going to let the audience know Jacques

1258
01:03:36,650 --> 01:03:34,710
said to me earlier today it's going to

1259
01:03:38,330 --> 01:03:36,660
be James is going to be on with me right

1260
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:38,340
it's going to be great that the two of

1261
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:41,010
us around together James didn't say one

1262
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:49,530
word well I think I shot because you

1263
01:03:55,010 --> 01:03:52,890
said I was a young guy I wanted to I

1264
01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:55,020
need to work with him because I'm old

1265
01:04:04,610 --> 01:03:58,050
you know I knew where the bodies are

1266
01:04:06,530 --> 01:04:04,620
buried very caring wait but no I'd like

1267
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:06,540
these people so I know what they were

1268
01:04:15,260 --> 01:04:10,410
thinking I I knew I mean we spent a lot

1269
01:04:18,740 --> 01:04:15,270
of time working on Socorro and of course

1270
01:04:22,220 --> 01:04:18,750
dr. Hynek was it so Carl and there were

1271
01:04:24,590 --> 01:04:22,230
some strange things about what when and

1272
01:04:27,770 --> 01:04:24,600
who talked to whom when and so on well

1273
01:04:31,580 --> 01:04:27,780
if you don't know what actually happened

1274
01:04:33,860 --> 01:04:31,590
there to the people you know you're

1275
01:04:36,890 --> 01:04:33,870
going to end up with a mystery and with

1276
01:04:38,329 --> 01:04:36,900
lots of question marks well I you know I

1277
01:04:41,989 --> 01:04:38,339
wasn't within the

1278
01:04:45,499 --> 01:04:41,999
so coral but I know I know what happened

1279
01:04:47,179 --> 01:04:45,509
I knew what happened in Ann Arbor I know

1280
01:04:50,689 --> 01:04:47,189
what happened in the Michigan's from

1281
01:04:54,410 --> 01:04:50,699
swamp gas case I know and well I'm a

1282
01:04:57,739 --> 01:04:54,420
spark of all of that so I think that's

1283
01:05:00,079 --> 01:04:57,749
where my contribution can be thank I

1284
01:05:04,420 --> 01:05:00,089
should like to say really quickly yes

1285
01:05:09,499 --> 01:05:04,430
that film would not be what it is

1286
01:05:11,839 --> 01:05:09,509
without jocks major contribution and I

1287
01:05:16,249 --> 01:05:11,849
really say that seriously

1288
01:05:19,249 --> 01:05:16,259
he was instrumental in putting the

1289
01:05:21,709 --> 01:05:19,259
pieces of the puzzle together someone

1290
01:05:24,709 --> 01:05:21,719
who not didn't read about it someone who

1291
01:05:30,229 --> 01:05:24,719
was there someone who knew Condon who

1292
01:05:31,999 --> 01:05:30,239
knew dr. the the I'll think of his name

1293
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:32,009
in a second but but basically all the

1294
01:05:36,679 --> 01:05:33,839
characters came to Nilla talked to

1295
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,689
McDonald you know his doctor gave his in

1296
01:05:40,459 --> 01:05:38,640
the movie and I'm glad he's in the movie

1297
01:05:44,539 --> 01:05:40,469
I mean he was brought many of these

1298
01:05:47,599 --> 01:05:44,549
people back to life with their character

1299
01:05:50,479 --> 01:05:47,609
and their you know their thoughts and

1300
01:05:56,959 --> 01:05:50,489
and their passion and I think that's

1301
01:05:59,239 --> 01:05:56,969
what the movie is about having Jacques

1302
01:06:00,650 --> 01:05:59,249
in the Edit room with us and helping us

1303
01:06:04,939 --> 01:06:00,660
put the pieces of the puzzle together

1304
01:06:07,759 --> 01:06:04,949
was just it was huge no priceless

1305
01:06:12,559 --> 01:06:07,769
priceless is the word Jacques I want to

1306
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:12,569
ask you one question with and maybe the

1307
01:06:18,319 --> 01:06:14,249
answer is inside of this film

1308
01:06:21,949 --> 01:06:18,329
I do not know is there one case that

1309
01:06:24,709 --> 01:06:21,959
stands out for you that you would want

1310
01:06:27,410 --> 01:06:24,719
to have covered that has been ignored

1311
01:06:32,989 --> 01:06:27,420
because you know like with ruh wah and

1312
01:06:36,589 --> 01:06:32,999
and even Zamora and Socorro hasn't you

1313
01:06:39,199 --> 01:06:36,599
know had the the attention to it and and

1314
01:06:42,049 --> 01:06:39,209
Westall but is there a case that you

1315
01:06:49,549 --> 01:06:42,059
would like to see thoroughly brought

1316
01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:49,559
forward you know many people you know

1317
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:51,990
ask that gives me one case give me

1318
01:06:59,900 --> 01:06:55,410
best case and of course people always

1319
01:07:05,140 --> 01:06:59,910
answer Roswell and you know one case in

1320
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:05,150
in science doesn't really mean that much

1321
01:07:12,829 --> 01:07:08,970
you can always come up I mean there are

1322
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:12,839
some extraordinarily rare things that

1323
01:07:22,460 --> 01:07:18,690
happen that can you know change the

1324
01:07:25,310 --> 01:07:22,470
whole disturb the whole picture and what

1325
01:07:27,470 --> 01:07:25,320
you what I've been trained to do maybe

1326
01:07:31,700 --> 01:07:27,480
because I'm a computer guy you know I'm

1327
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:31,710
I mean I I will start physics but I

1328
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:34,890
don't really remember most of the

1329
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:38,400
equations I'm basically an information

1330
01:07:48,650 --> 01:07:42,330
science guy and AI you know my PhD was

1331
01:07:51,290 --> 01:07:48,660
in AI I look for patterns and the what's

1332
01:07:55,250 --> 01:07:51,300
great about this movie is that yes it

1333
01:08:01,130 --> 01:07:55,260
goes into specific cases as illustration

1334
01:08:03,770 --> 01:08:01,140
and goes into many many aspects of them

1335
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:03,780
that have not been seen before by people

1336
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:06,810
that are important but what's important

1337
01:08:13,250 --> 01:08:09,770
is what what emerges from the pattern

1338
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:13,260
and what does what does for you what

1339
01:08:19,340 --> 01:08:15,570
what is the key element that you're

1340
01:08:20,990 --> 01:08:19,350
looking for in a pattern because with

1341
01:08:24,590 --> 01:08:21,000
your books in the way that you have

1342
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:24,600
spoken about the phenomenon over the

1343
01:08:28,910 --> 01:08:27,120
years that there is an interdimensional

1344
01:08:31,820 --> 01:08:28,920
aspect to this there's something else

1345
01:08:34,910 --> 01:08:31,830
here that is non-physical there is the

1346
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:34,920
the trace evidence left on bodies and

1347
01:08:41,150 --> 01:08:39,000
and people's faces for instance that are

1348
01:08:42,860 --> 01:08:41,160
you looking for that kind of consistency

1349
01:08:45,979 --> 01:08:42,870
from case to case that you're not

1350
01:08:49,459 --> 01:08:45,989
necessarily speaking about but you see

1351
01:08:52,910 --> 01:08:49,469
it and that convinces you that what had

1352
01:08:54,979 --> 01:08:52,920
happened could be extraterrestrial well

1353
01:08:57,620 --> 01:08:54,989
what you're doing in looking for

1354
01:09:01,160 --> 01:08:57,630
patterns and by the way you know if you

1355
01:09:04,729 --> 01:09:01,170
have if you're getting a thousand cases

1356
01:09:05,390 --> 01:09:04,739
a month you're going to be just looking

1357
01:09:08,329 --> 01:09:05,400
for

1358
01:09:12,349 --> 01:09:08,339
that's what we're a I can can help you

1359
01:09:15,289 --> 01:09:12,359
right if there is a pattern that matches

1360
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:15,299
for example the moon rising through fart

1361
01:09:23,300 --> 01:09:19,650
or it matches what some new weapon can

1362
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:23,310
do that or it matches some some common

1363
01:09:26,990 --> 01:09:24,810
phenomenon that people wouldn't

1364
01:09:30,410 --> 01:09:27,000
necessarily recognize you can eliminate

1365
01:09:33,019 --> 01:09:30,420
those cases and zero in on only ones

1366
01:09:36,110 --> 01:09:33,029
that are truly unknown now the ones that

1367
01:09:39,919 --> 01:09:36,120
are truly unknown me for example for a

1368
01:09:42,260 --> 01:09:39,929
long time the statistics that we were we

1369
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:42,270
were looking for patterns of way you

1370
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:45,089
know of time analysis of the waves and

1371
01:09:54,740 --> 01:09:49,130
they were following the 26 months

1372
01:09:59,630 --> 01:09:54,750
initially starting in nineteen 1950 1950

1373
01:10:02,899 --> 01:09:59,640
to 1954 1956 you know over those well 26

1374
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:02,909
month is very City on Mouse as seen from

1375
01:10:08,510 --> 01:10:05,489
the earth the opposition's of Mouse as

1376
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:08,520
seen from the earth so does that mean

1377
01:10:15,100 --> 01:10:12,330
that they you know come from Mouse well

1378
01:10:18,649 --> 01:10:15,110
after that the pattern breaks down and

1379
01:10:23,149 --> 01:10:18,659
it breaks down in 1957 at the time of

1380
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:23,159
Sputnik why but when you look at the

1381
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:25,530
data that the people who are not seeing

1382
01:10:32,860 --> 01:10:27,840
Sputnik they were seeing something in

1383
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:32,870
their backyard and it wasn't Sputnik so

1384
01:10:38,990 --> 01:10:35,760
that looks or banner and teaches you a

1385
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:39,000
lot about what the phenomenon is or is

1386
01:10:49,459 --> 01:10:43,530
not then you know you're left with the

1387
01:10:55,820 --> 01:10:49,469
unknowns and again what what you want is

1388
01:10:58,340 --> 01:10:55,830
to begin to at that point you know any

1389
01:11:03,200 --> 01:10:58,350
scientist who is not the complete idiot

1390
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:03,210
will realize with what he or she has you

1391
01:11:11,630 --> 01:11:06,810
know on in the lab is something is an

1392
01:11:13,490 --> 01:11:11,640
intelligence that can change a little

1393
01:11:18,110 --> 01:11:13,500
bit like the people who study dolphins

1394
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:18,120
you know you play games I remember

1395
01:11:28,430 --> 01:11:21,930
generally talking about dolphins and the

1396
01:11:31,850 --> 01:11:28,440
dolphin had to go to come and grab

1397
01:11:35,180 --> 01:11:31,860
something within 20 seconds you know to

1398
01:11:38,110 --> 01:11:35,190
get some food and that was a game that

1399
01:11:40,850 --> 01:11:38,120
he had they had invented and they were

1400
01:11:42,980 --> 01:11:40,860
giving scores to the dolphins if they

1401
01:11:44,930 --> 01:11:42,990
did it right and the dolphin would get

1402
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:44,940
some food well after a while the

1403
01:11:51,650 --> 01:11:48,480
Dolphins would swim to the hand of the

1404
01:11:56,570 --> 01:11:51,660
pool and sink to the bottom and stay

1405
01:12:00,620 --> 01:11:56,580
there until the second number 18 and

1406
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:00,630
then the dolphin would just fly out of

1407
01:12:07,460 --> 01:12:03,840
the water and jump to the end then grab

1408
01:12:10,340 --> 01:12:07,470
the food just before the 20 seconds well

1409
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:10,350
that's when you know that this is not

1410
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:14,310
just a game that the dolphin has gotten

1411
01:12:19,550 --> 01:12:17,040
it understands the rules is playing with

1412
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:19,560
you and putting you on the spot

1413
01:12:24,050 --> 01:12:22,050
essentially by saying hey you know I

1414
01:12:25,310 --> 01:12:24,060
know what you're trying to do and I'm

1415
01:12:28,060 --> 01:12:25,320
smarter than that

1416
01:12:31,730 --> 01:12:28,070
well the us fools are doing that rightly

1417
01:12:34,730 --> 01:12:31,740
every time we think that we're going to

1418
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:34,740
really understand where they're going to

1419
01:12:41,780 --> 01:12:37,770
go next it doesn't happen quite that way

1420
01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:41,790
or you know the appearance changes or

1421
01:12:50,690 --> 01:12:45,300
the lights change something changes it's

1422
01:12:54,260 --> 01:12:50,700
to some extent it's a game so you know

1423
01:12:55,790 --> 01:12:54,270
you would be could be excused by saying

1424
01:12:59,690 --> 01:12:55,800
maybe they are trying to teach us

1425
01:13:02,300 --> 01:12:59,700
something but there are things in the

1426
01:13:04,660 --> 01:13:02,310
environment that can give that

1427
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:04,670
impression also of playing games with us

1428
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:09,170
and this is where we need a lot of data

1429
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:11,850
and that's where we need people who are

1430
01:13:18,260 --> 01:13:15,510
trained to look at data and to look at

1431
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:18,270
this particular kind of data let me tell

1432
01:13:24,230 --> 01:13:21,090
you it takes two years the idea that you

1433
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:24,240
can hire somebody who is you know good

1434
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:26,810
at artificial intelligence and get a

1435
01:13:31,849 --> 01:13:30,600
bunch of people and give them a bunch of

1436
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:31,859
reports and tell

1437
01:13:35,989 --> 01:13:34,320
to code the report and then the computer

1438
01:13:37,759 --> 01:13:35,999
is going to give you an answer in six

1439
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:37,769
months that's not true

1440
01:13:47,989 --> 01:13:43,199
it's just like intelligence you know in

1441
01:13:50,629 --> 01:13:47,999
the or it's just like learning your

1442
01:13:54,199 --> 01:13:50,639
language and understanding the culture

1443
01:13:56,779 --> 01:13:54,209
through learning the language it's it's

1444
01:13:59,989 --> 01:13:56,789
something that we need to train the

1445
01:14:03,169 --> 01:13:59,999
cadre of people to come to grips with

1446
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:03,179
the phenomenon with no preconceived idea

1447
01:14:10,159 --> 01:14:07,199
of what it is I have to ask you this I

1448
01:14:12,129 --> 01:14:10,169
can't let you go without without going

1449
01:14:18,739 --> 01:14:12,139
here

1450
01:14:22,750 --> 01:14:18,749
okay all of history until now Jacque all

1451
01:14:25,939 --> 01:14:22,760
of history was the question of other

1452
01:14:30,259 --> 01:14:25,949
planets out there beyond our solar

1453
01:14:32,509 --> 01:14:30,269
system right would there be one would

1454
01:14:33,169 --> 01:14:32,519
there be two would there be ten in the

1455
01:14:36,619 --> 01:14:33,179
Milky Way

1456
01:14:39,489 --> 01:14:36,629
well now over the last ten years

1457
01:14:43,969 --> 01:14:39,499
especially and over the last five years

1458
01:14:47,839 --> 01:14:43,979
significantly we now know that there are

1459
01:14:53,629 --> 01:14:47,849
1 trillion planets in the Milky Way and

1460
01:14:57,199 --> 01:14:53,639
that up to 100 billion of them are rocky

1461
01:14:59,209 --> 01:14:57,209
earth-like planets now that changes the

1462
01:14:59,989 --> 01:14:59,219
game doesn't it not only with the Drake

1463
01:15:02,989 --> 01:14:59,999
Equation

1464
01:15:09,020 --> 01:15:02,999
but with relieving the pressure on our

1465
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:09,030
brains wondering because you know where

1466
01:15:17,899 --> 01:15:12,449
are they there are so many of them why

1467
01:15:19,969 --> 01:15:17,909
don't we see them or do we see then how

1468
01:15:28,279 --> 01:15:19,979
do we not see them because we are not

1469
01:15:30,589 --> 01:15:28,289
looking in the right way I know that's

1470
01:15:33,049 --> 01:15:30,599
what my the argument that I have my

1471
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:33,059
friends at City they say you know by now

1472
01:15:39,799 --> 01:15:37,199
it should be obvious it's not obvious it

1473
01:15:43,250 --> 01:15:39,809
shouldn't be just some vague shape in

1474
01:15:45,350 --> 01:15:43,260
the backyard or a light or you know or

1475
01:15:50,660 --> 01:15:45,360
even something flying over an air

1476
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:50,670
carrier it should be very clear then we

1477
01:15:59,290 --> 01:15:53,690
should have learned to recognize her and

1478
01:16:02,300 --> 01:15:59,300
so it seems so you have a dissonance

1479
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:02,310
discontinuity that yes we know that

1480
01:16:08,629 --> 01:16:05,760
there must be that many planets we know

1481
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:08,639
that life cannot be that you know

1482
01:16:13,010 --> 01:16:10,770
strange and unique there are different

1483
01:16:17,390 --> 01:16:13,020
ways of getting an intelligent animal

1484
01:16:20,780 --> 01:16:17,400
out of a bunch of chemicals and nature

1485
01:16:27,109 --> 01:16:20,790
is very rich in all the ways it can do

1486
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:27,119
that so how come they are not here how

1487
01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:29,130
are they here but in a completely

1488
01:16:35,390 --> 01:16:32,760
different form or or frequency I think

1489
01:16:38,750 --> 01:16:35,400
that's right right or frequency they

1490
01:16:42,140 --> 01:16:38,760
could be literally phasing in and out of

1491
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:42,150
our existence not only with our vision

1492
01:16:48,250 --> 01:16:46,290
but our hearing and an our world right

1493
01:16:53,260 --> 01:16:48,260
I'm talking about a parallel situation

1494
01:17:05,169 --> 01:16:58,340
so but those are you know hypotheses and

1495
01:17:08,629 --> 01:17:05,179
no to make something clear dr. Hynek

1496
01:17:12,859 --> 01:17:08,639
when he was teaching at Northwestern

1497
01:17:18,590 --> 01:17:12,869
when I was at Northwestern with him was

1498
01:17:21,050 --> 01:17:18,600
teaching the kids that any star mean we

1499
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:21,060
were talking about classifications of

1500
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:27,570
stars our Sun is a G G type stands that

1501
01:17:35,629 --> 01:17:32,130
any slowly rotating yellow star like the

1502
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:35,639
Sun had to have planets that's why it's

1503
01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:38,730
Forte it's rotating slowly and if it's

1504
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:41,760
yellow is probably kind of old and

1505
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:44,400
stable and it's going to be stable for a

1506
01:17:50,419 --> 01:17:48,449
long time so any planets there there our

1507
01:17:52,430 --> 01:17:50,429
Sun would be too hot and some will be

1508
01:17:55,459 --> 01:17:52,440
too cold but there would be something

1509
01:17:57,950 --> 01:17:55,469
would be close enough to have water in

1510
01:17:59,720 --> 01:17:57,960
liquid form and once you have water in

1511
01:18:01,280 --> 01:17:59,730
liquid form

1512
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:01,290
you know there are all kinds of things

1513
01:18:06,830 --> 01:18:04,170
that can happen in biology and if you

1514
01:18:09,290 --> 01:18:06,840
have a started stable single style

1515
01:18:13,670 --> 01:18:09,300
although now people are talking about

1516
01:18:16,150 --> 01:18:13,680
double Styles having planets but that

1517
01:18:19,190 --> 01:18:16,160
could support life and III don't know

1518
01:18:23,020 --> 01:18:19,200
you know where we're going with that but

1519
01:18:26,890 --> 01:18:23,030
certainly enough single yellow stars

1520
01:18:30,500 --> 01:18:26,900
just in our solar neighborhood to

1521
01:18:33,710 --> 01:18:30,510
indicate that life must be and he was

1522
01:18:36,230 --> 01:18:33,720
teaching that okay I mean this was in

1523
01:18:41,290 --> 01:18:36,240
the days when people were saying well

1524
01:18:45,140 --> 01:18:41,300
life is probably very rare you know and

1525
01:18:50,300 --> 01:18:45,150
so we should remember that there are

1526
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:50,310
some great teachers around the as we

1527
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:53,010
move ahead and this is the thing as we

1528
01:18:59,050 --> 01:18:53,850
move ahead

1529
01:19:03,680 --> 01:18:59,060
do you anticipate more cooperation from

1530
01:19:06,290 --> 01:19:03,690
different state actors and and certainly

1531
01:19:08,990 --> 01:19:06,300
within our own country because they need

1532
01:19:12,410 --> 01:19:09,000
to respond to the public's interest with

1533
01:19:17,420 --> 01:19:12,420
films like the phenomenon that maybe

1534
01:19:22,100 --> 01:19:17,430
we'll start to see that cooperation well

1535
01:19:26,540 --> 01:19:22,110
if you look at the history of science

1536
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:26,550
and technology and so on it the

1537
01:19:32,740 --> 01:19:28,890
government can do extraordinarily good

1538
01:19:35,650 --> 01:19:32,750
things in my career have been funded by

1539
01:19:42,310 --> 01:19:35,660
both the National Science Foundation and

1540
01:19:44,450 --> 01:19:42,320
by DARPA but the incentive has to come

1541
01:19:47,570 --> 01:19:44,460
you know they are not going to knock on

1542
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:47,580
your door and ask you if you have you

1543
01:19:54,590 --> 01:19:51,650
know a bright kid who could enlist in

1544
01:19:57,650 --> 01:19:54,600
five years of study so that he could

1545
01:19:59,440 --> 01:19:57,660
discover x y&z I mean you have to

1546
01:20:03,730 --> 01:19:59,450
discover it first you know

1547
01:20:09,050 --> 01:20:03,740
you have to you have to do the hard work

1548
01:20:10,910 --> 01:20:09,060
and sometimes with no support and you

1549
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:10,920
know that's and then you discover

1550
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:13,170
something or you become

1551
01:20:19,700 --> 01:20:15,199
really good at doing something that

1552
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:19,710
other people want to join and and then

1553
01:20:28,939 --> 01:20:24,480
you did the government with maybe no

1554
01:20:32,570 --> 01:20:28,949
capital G may take notice and if it

1555
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:32,580
matches something that they think would

1556
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:36,449
be useful to the economy are useful to

1557
01:20:43,610 --> 01:20:39,330
knowledge in general then you have a

1558
01:20:47,870 --> 01:20:43,620
chance of getting funded but you know

1559
01:20:52,820 --> 01:20:47,880
again I believe in individual initiative

1560
01:20:55,669 --> 01:20:52,830
and people who are brave enough to do

1561
01:20:58,430 --> 01:20:55,679
this that is to begin to explore it on

1562
01:20:59,150 --> 01:20:58,440
their own and make all the mistakes

1563
01:21:04,610 --> 01:20:59,160
along the way

1564
01:21:08,030 --> 01:21:04,620
and that's that's how you learn one last

1565
01:21:13,100 --> 01:21:08,040
one last question before I have to let

1566
01:21:16,390 --> 01:21:13,110
you go is it seems that France United

1567
01:21:22,130 --> 01:21:16,400
Kingdom even Italy Brazil Argentina

1568
01:21:26,090 --> 01:21:22,140
Chile Mexico these these countries have

1569
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:26,100
been very open and willing to discuss

1570
01:21:31,850 --> 01:21:29,280
this out in the open and and not hide

1571
01:21:35,180 --> 01:21:31,860
behind it but the United States has

1572
01:21:38,419 --> 01:21:35,190
chosen to not discuss it and almost

1573
01:21:40,250 --> 01:21:38,429
ridicule the public on that the opposite

1574
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:40,260
of these other countries that I've just

1575
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:45,290
mentioned is it I hear that argument on

1576
01:21:52,490 --> 01:21:49,530
the other hand I was given access to the

1577
01:21:57,290 --> 01:21:52,500
Air Force fight which were 12,000 cases

1578
01:21:59,570 --> 01:21:57,300
at the time and I you know I punched it

1579
01:22:02,810 --> 01:21:59,580
into punch cards in those days and I

1580
01:22:05,919 --> 01:22:02,820
built my first catalog out of that with

1581
01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:05,929
the blessing of the Air Force I mean the

1582
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:10,080
there was I mean the only rule was to

1583
01:22:15,709 --> 01:22:13,410
preserve the privacy of of the witnesses

1584
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:15,719
but the the Air Force would have been

1585
01:22:21,290 --> 01:22:17,850
delighted is more scientists at common

1586
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:21,300
and at the time you know I was a French

1587
01:22:27,740 --> 01:22:25,170
citizen with a green card I was

1588
01:22:29,810 --> 01:22:27,750
not even a citizen you know I only

1589
01:22:37,370 --> 01:22:29,820
became a citizen when I worked at SR I

1590
01:22:42,830 --> 01:22:37,380
in the early 70s and so the you know the

1591
01:22:43,250 --> 01:22:42,840
the Air Force was quite open with all of

1592
01:22:45,709 --> 01:22:43,260
them

1593
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:45,719
obviously me and you know that in that

1594
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:47,850
you know about weapons or anything else

1595
01:22:52,610 --> 01:22:50,880
as they kept it for themselves but one

1596
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:52,620
thousand cases and I could work on them

1597
01:22:57,470 --> 01:22:54,810
hold on Jacque what were you saying

1598
01:23:00,320 --> 01:22:57,480
James I I'm so sorry guys I didn't mean

1599
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:00,330
to butt in here but Jacques the one

1600
01:23:04,910 --> 01:23:01,890
thing that bothers me about that

1601
01:23:08,630 --> 01:23:04,920
statement is that you know we go into

1602
01:23:10,459 --> 01:23:08,640
great depth obviously with your help to

1603
01:23:13,010 --> 01:23:10,469
Socorro that was a landing case one of

1604
01:23:15,530 --> 01:23:13,020
the most well-documented first Close

1605
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:15,540
Encounters of the Third Kind in in US

1606
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:18,090
history and then just two years later

1607
01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:20,280
they were you know congressional

1608
01:23:24,650 --> 01:23:21,600
hearings there were statements by the

1609
01:23:27,020 --> 01:23:24,660
air force in uniform say that there was

1610
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:27,030
absolutely no evidence was whatsoever to

1611
01:23:31,700 --> 01:23:29,130
suggest that UFOs could be you know

1612
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:31,710
visitors from somewhere else and I just

1613
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:33,330
thought wait a minute didn't you guys

1614
01:23:38,330 --> 01:23:36,120
just extensively research that landing

1615
01:23:41,660 --> 01:23:38,340
case from a police officer in Socorro

1616
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:41,670
two years earlier so clearly they were

1617
01:23:47,419 --> 01:23:45,170
doing everything they could to keep that

1618
01:23:49,070 --> 01:23:47,429
element of the phenomenon out of the

1619
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:49,080
eyes of the general public so there was

1620
01:23:58,130 --> 01:23:53,489
in a sense an effort to I hate to use

1621
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:58,140
the word cover-up but yes yes well I

1622
01:24:04,220 --> 01:24:00,719
used to have that discussion with with

1623
01:24:07,910 --> 01:24:04,230
Allen Hynek and you know he set me down

1624
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:07,920
and said look stop talking about the Air

1625
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:09,810
Force there is no such thing at

1626
01:24:15,020 --> 01:24:12,090
different times I mean these people come

1627
01:24:18,140 --> 01:24:15,030
and go in those positions typically

1628
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:18,150
there are two years in behind a desk and

1629
01:24:27,709 --> 01:24:21,650
then two years in in Germany you know

1630
01:24:30,580 --> 01:24:27,719
managing a flight squadron and then

1631
01:24:34,610 --> 01:24:30,590
there are two years in some other place

1632
01:24:37,830 --> 01:24:34,620
training training pilots or doing

1633
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:40,860
the management comes and goes the the

1634
01:24:47,700 --> 01:24:44,370
attitude of the public comes and goes

1635
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:47,710
the the fact that there was something at

1636
01:24:57,020 --> 01:24:52,560
Socorro that they could not explain was

1637
01:25:00,420 --> 01:24:57,030
known to everybody it didn't mean that

1638
01:25:02,010 --> 01:25:00,430
we were visited by everybody in Flint

1639
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:02,020
that there was something that we could

1640
01:25:08,010 --> 01:25:05,290
not explain or would not because they

1641
01:25:09,900 --> 01:25:08,020
were for a long time we thought that but

1642
01:25:13,110 --> 01:25:09,910
they were this could have be good have

1643
01:25:15,830 --> 01:25:13,120
been an antigravity device it could have

1644
01:25:22,050 --> 01:25:15,840
been you know I I tracked down a company

1645
01:25:26,730 --> 01:25:22,060
that was very hush-hush that were

1646
01:25:29,910 --> 01:25:26,740
studying gravity they had physicists yet

1647
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:29,920
you know and maybe they had built a

1648
01:25:37,010 --> 01:25:32,050
prototype and it had to land there for a

1649
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:37,020
while it took off again I don't know so

1650
01:25:43,950 --> 01:25:40,510
there could be several motivations for

1651
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:43,960
that I think at the time to the total to

1652
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:46,570
address your question specifically I

1653
01:25:53,340 --> 01:25:49,930
think the Air Force did not want the

1654
01:25:57,570 --> 01:25:53,350
public to get to get too excited about

1655
01:26:01,080 --> 01:25:57,580
this because it among other things they

1656
01:26:04,950 --> 01:26:01,090
were afraid of saturating their their

1657
01:26:07,940 --> 01:26:04,960
communication channels and this was very

1658
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:07,950
much what the the Robertson panel had

1659
01:26:16,580 --> 01:26:12,010
recommended you know to and at the time

1660
01:26:19,980 --> 01:26:16,590
those recommendations were classified to

1661
01:26:22,770 --> 01:26:19,990
to come the public so that there would

1662
01:26:24,810 --> 01:26:22,780
be fewer reports because even were too

1663
01:26:27,990 --> 01:26:24,820
many reports through the military

1664
01:26:30,290 --> 01:26:28,000
channels it could saturate and can this

1665
01:26:33,890 --> 01:26:30,300
almost happened at the time of the

1666
01:26:37,110 --> 01:26:33,900
Washington flight you know when

1667
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:37,120
Washington was overthrown by a lot of

1668
01:26:43,980 --> 01:26:40,050
things that could not be recognized and

1669
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:43,990
the communication channels of the Air

1670
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:45,370
Force

1671
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:47,920
essentially were cloud by all the

1672
01:26:51,509 --> 01:26:50,410
reports from they want people from their

1673
01:26:55,489 --> 01:26:51,519
own bases

1674
01:26:59,759 --> 01:26:55,499
so they really wanted to get rid of it

1675
01:27:02,250 --> 01:26:59,769
to be blunt and I think those statements

1676
01:27:05,069 --> 01:27:02,260
where along those lines and of course

1677
01:27:08,970 --> 01:27:05,079
the same thing happened in with a swamp

1678
01:27:11,279 --> 01:27:08,980
gas case Chuck thank you so much

1679
01:27:12,450 --> 01:27:11,289
what an amazing conversation tonight and

1680
01:27:15,239 --> 01:27:12,460
I look forward to hanging out with you

1681
01:27:17,580 --> 01:27:15,249
again and of course having you back on

1682
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:17,590
fade to black where we can continue

1683
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:19,449
these conversations and thank you for

1684
01:27:25,500 --> 01:27:21,130
everything that you have done and this

1685
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:25,510
community again extends their thanks to

1686
01:27:32,069 --> 01:27:28,690
you thank you so much jock well thank

1687
01:27:35,129 --> 01:27:32,079
you and see I look forward to seeing the

1688
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:35,139
movie Nell that you know they've done so

1689
01:27:38,899 --> 01:27:36,489
many good things to it

1690
01:27:41,069 --> 01:27:38,909
I mean I've learned a lot about the

1691
01:27:44,100 --> 01:27:41,079
technology they are using after they

1692
01:27:47,759 --> 01:27:44,110
finish shooting and assembling the movie

1693
01:27:48,660 --> 01:27:47,769
and it's just going to be it's just

1694
01:27:53,549 --> 01:27:48,670
going to be amazing

1695
01:27:54,209 --> 01:27:53,559
it is usually and emotionally in jacques

1696
01:27:56,549 --> 01:27:54,219
ballet

1697
01:27:57,870 --> 01:27:56,559
thank you so much Jacque enjoy the rest

1698
01:28:00,290 --> 01:27:57,880
of your evening thank you for hanging

1699
01:28:05,489 --> 01:28:00,300
out with us thank you you're welcome

1700
01:28:08,609 --> 01:28:05,499
James I'll see you soon right on night

1701
01:28:11,459 --> 01:28:08,619
and I am going to go to commercial as

1702
01:28:14,100 --> 01:28:11,469
everybody has just noticed I did blow

1703
01:28:17,129 --> 01:28:14,110
through a commercial break but it's jock

1704
01:28:18,839 --> 01:28:17,139
ballet and James Fox and that's the way

1705
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:18,849
it goes this is fade to black more James

1706
01:29:01,970 --> 01:28:59,000
[Music]

1707
01:29:04,440 --> 01:29:01,980
[Applause]

1708
01:29:06,530 --> 01:29:04,450
welcome back fade to black I'm the old

1709
01:29:09,390 --> 01:29:06,540
shimmy Church to Jacques valet

1710
01:29:11,670 --> 01:29:09,400
uninterrupted for an hour doesn't get

1711
01:29:16,230 --> 01:29:11,680
any better than that unless he got James

1712
01:29:20,310 --> 01:29:16,240
Fox in the batter's box and James

1713
01:29:24,540 --> 01:29:20,320
continuing on let's break down a couple

1714
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:24,550
of things that Jacques said I I wasn't

1715
01:29:28,650 --> 01:29:26,410
going to interrupt and I know what you

1716
01:29:31,470 --> 01:29:28,660
were thinking - is Jimmy just gonna

1717
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:31,480
continue I blew through the commercial

1718
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:39,250
breaks and and we just I didn't hear a

1719
01:29:48,990 --> 01:29:45,010
peep and like what could I let's let's

1720
01:29:51,180 --> 01:29:49,000
break down a couple of things he said he

1721
01:29:53,250 --> 01:29:51,190
said while I was taking notes he said

1722
01:29:55,500 --> 01:29:53,260
one thing that absolutely floored me and

1723
01:30:00,390 --> 01:29:55,510
it didn't get past the audience I was

1724
01:30:02,540 --> 01:30:00,400
watching them on Twitter and he said of

1725
01:30:06,900 --> 01:30:02,550
course the government has crash

1726
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:06,910
retrievals what when you hear jock tell

1727
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:08,770
a some say something like that what's

1728
01:30:15,410 --> 01:30:12,370
going through your mind the conversation

1729
01:30:17,850 --> 01:30:15,420
I had with them off-the-record surprised

1730
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:17,860
when you said are there things that you

1731
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:19,930
that you know Jacques all I could think

1732
01:30:27,810 --> 01:30:21,730
of is that I asked the exact same

1733
01:30:30,090 --> 01:30:27,820
question in private III have to and and

1734
01:30:35,370 --> 01:30:30,100
his answers you know what and I don't

1735
01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:35,380
want to say things to the audience that

1736
01:30:40,950 --> 01:30:38,110
that are uncool look when you have

1737
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:40,960
private conversations with people you

1738
01:30:45,870 --> 01:30:42,610
have to respect that they have to stay

1739
01:30:49,350 --> 01:30:45,880
private dock till has a top secret

1740
01:30:52,020 --> 01:30:49,360
clearance that's right yes I know he has

1741
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:52,030
security clearance is still because he

1742
01:30:54,930 --> 01:30:53,410
had brought those up with me on a couple

1743
01:30:58,920 --> 01:30:54,940
of occasions because I asked him to talk

1744
01:31:06,360 --> 01:30:58,930
about a tip and he had briefed members

1745
01:31:08,430 --> 01:31:06,370
of the Senate on that project during

1746
01:31:12,770 --> 01:31:08,440
that project I believe he said he still

1747
01:31:14,580 --> 01:31:12,780
held a classification but anyway yeah so

1748
01:31:18,020 --> 01:31:14,590
yeah yeah

1749
01:31:21,690 --> 01:31:18,030
let's just put it this way jacques neau

1750
01:31:25,410 --> 01:31:21,700
he does he does and that's you know I I

1751
01:31:29,370 --> 01:31:25,420
have to ask him that question as

1752
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:29,380
difficult as it may be for me to ask

1753
01:31:34,020 --> 01:31:32,410
that but it's a question that needs to

1754
01:31:38,100 --> 01:31:34,030
be asked and the audience has to hear

1755
01:31:40,020 --> 01:31:38,110
the answer whatever it may be and and

1756
01:31:45,480 --> 01:31:40,030
being able to go there with Jacques look

1757
01:31:48,290 --> 01:31:45,490
he he has I think a great respect for

1758
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:48,300
the community and he has certainly

1759
01:31:57,030 --> 01:31:51,810
rolled the dice and pushed this question

1760
01:32:00,000 --> 01:31:57,040
and committed a life to this and and

1761
01:32:02,730 --> 01:32:00,010
hearing his answer whatever it may be

1762
01:32:05,270 --> 01:32:02,740
comes from a place of respect and it was

1763
01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:05,280
just amazing now let's go back to

1764
01:32:14,250 --> 01:32:10,450
Socorro for a second and you're

1765
01:32:17,190 --> 01:32:14,260
absolutely right okay and and the way

1766
01:32:21,750 --> 01:32:17,200
that you presented that to Jacques is an

1767
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:21,760
honest as an honest question

1768
01:32:29,550 --> 01:32:26,530
it needs to be asked because Hynek now

1769
01:32:32,910 --> 01:32:29,560
you've researched this enough but Hynek

1770
01:32:37,050 --> 01:32:32,920
was on the scene like the next day right

1771
01:32:38,970 --> 01:32:37,060
he literally was at the here's that yeah

1772
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:38,980
yes totally and and here's the thing

1773
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:40,330
that Jacques didn't mentioned tonight

1774
01:32:48,210 --> 01:32:43,890
and I found fascinating and that was

1775
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:48,220
during that period in 1964 just before

1776
01:32:54,570 --> 01:32:52,210
Socorro happened Jacques was bending the

1777
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:54,580
year of dr. J Allen Hynek who we all

1778
01:32:58,500 --> 01:32:56,770
know that was the scientific advisor to

1779
01:33:00,960 --> 01:32:58,510
the Air Force project Bluebook and

1780
01:33:03,270 --> 01:33:00,970
Jacques was saying look you know he had

1781
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:03,280
just finished cataloging all these cases

1782
01:33:06,300 --> 01:33:05,650
in France from the 50s of Close

1783
01:33:11,220 --> 01:33:06,310
Encounters

1784
01:33:13,380 --> 01:33:11,230
and so Jacque was telling Hynek look you

1785
01:33:15,950 --> 01:33:13,390
need to look under these unexplained

1786
01:33:20,070 --> 01:33:15,960
cases under the category of

1787
01:33:22,110 --> 01:33:20,080
psychological and his reasoning was you

1788
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:22,120
know there are a lot of cases in Project

1789
01:33:25,620 --> 01:33:23,410
Blue Book where you have close

1790
01:33:27,420 --> 01:33:25,630
encounters but they're quickly dismissed

1791
01:33:28,650 --> 01:33:27,430
as and they're labeled and categorizes

1792
01:33:30,630 --> 01:33:28,660
psychological because

1793
01:33:32,460 --> 01:33:30,640
it says too much it's one thing to talk

1794
01:33:34,170 --> 01:33:32,470
about unidentified craft in the air

1795
01:33:36,300 --> 01:33:34,180
something totally different to talk

1796
01:33:38,010 --> 01:33:36,310
about beings on the ground and while

1797
01:33:43,530 --> 01:33:38,020
Jacque was going through this whole

1798
01:33:46,740 --> 01:33:43,540
thing with he was actually at Air Force

1799
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:46,750
Base in Dayton Ohio with Jacques which

1800
01:33:53,610 --> 01:33:50,850
was the headquarters for bloomer

1801
01:33:56,010 --> 01:33:53,620
headquarters for Project Blue Book I

1802
01:33:58,530 --> 01:33:56,020
think was like a day later the landing

1803
01:34:00,330 --> 01:33:58,540
happened at Socorro so the irony of the

1804
01:34:02,700 --> 01:34:00,340
whole thing and the synchronicity and

1805
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:02,710
timing is just phenomenal and it's one

1806
01:34:06,540 --> 01:34:04,810
of the things that we uncovered when we

1807
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:06,550
were with Jacques so Jacques like

1808
01:34:10,950 --> 01:34:09,250
painstakingly walked us through what was

1809
01:34:15,210 --> 01:34:10,960
happening in the Air Force the time what

1810
01:34:17,790 --> 01:34:15,220
was happening with dr. Hynek hynek's 180

1811
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:17,800
started to occur that was one of the

1812
01:34:22,380 --> 01:34:20,410
cases that really profoundly affected

1813
01:34:23,670 --> 01:34:22,390
Hein it because of the caliber of the

1814
01:34:27,090 --> 01:34:23,680
witness and all the evidence that was

1815
01:34:28,980 --> 01:34:27,100
left behind the scene you know we we we

1816
01:34:30,300 --> 01:34:28,990
dug into that case for five years I mean

1817
01:34:32,100 --> 01:34:30,310
how much the National Archives and

1818
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:32,110
funding that everyone's like oh you

1819
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:33,130
really want to know a lot more about

1820
01:34:39,330 --> 01:34:35,410
this case you talk to a Stanford who

1821
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:39,340
wrote the book Pentagon pantry so it's

1822
01:34:43,170 --> 01:34:41,170
officer and a Pentagon pantry something

1823
01:34:47,070 --> 01:34:43,180
like this sorry came from this exact

1824
01:34:48,660 --> 01:34:47,080
title of it you gotta go there and when

1825
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:48,670
I went to interview race Stanford about

1826
01:34:53,610 --> 01:34:50,530
it I spent like a week at his house with

1827
01:34:56,550 --> 01:34:53,620
him and he has amazing accounts about

1828
01:34:57,420 --> 01:34:56,560
how he investigated thoroughly I tried

1829
01:34:58,950 --> 01:34:57,430
to get him to go to the National

1830
01:35:00,480 --> 01:34:58,960
Archives and he was never any part of it

1831
01:35:02,310 --> 01:35:00,490
he's like oh god you know nothing

1832
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:02,320
everything is there was to be discovered

1833
01:35:05,970 --> 01:35:03,970
has already been discovered as complete

1834
01:35:07,140 --> 01:35:05,980
and utter waste of time long story short

1835
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:07,150
I said well if that's the attitude

1836
01:35:11,820 --> 01:35:08,770
you're gonna have then I'm going without

1837
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:11,830
you and and he said okay fine I'll go

1838
01:35:14,850 --> 01:35:13,570
but I'm gonna take my own car cuz up ten

1839
01:35:17,550 --> 01:35:14,860
minutes and really thoroughly fed up and

1840
01:35:19,020 --> 01:35:17,560
I'm going home well long story short we

1841
01:35:22,110 --> 01:35:19,030
got the original Project Blue Book file

1842
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:22,120
the original copies not photocopies

1843
01:35:28,980 --> 01:35:24,850
originals not the scan not the microfilm

1844
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:28,990
original it was when they rolled those

1845
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:31,570
out at the National Archives we had a

1846
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:32,770
little white gloves on it was

1847
01:35:40,140 --> 01:35:37,050
unbelievable and to see the level of

1848
01:35:41,879 --> 01:35:40,150
documentation and evidence diagrams and

1849
01:35:44,189 --> 01:35:41,889
photographs and

1850
01:35:48,149 --> 01:35:44,199
all the effort that they went through

1851
01:35:50,850 --> 01:35:48,159
the Air Force to to try and provide a

1852
01:35:52,709 --> 01:35:50,860
prosaic explanation for that case right

1853
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:52,719
down to the footprints of the creatures

1854
01:35:56,669 --> 01:35:55,090
directly corresponding to the eyewitness

1855
01:35:59,189 --> 01:35:56,679
testimony where they were standing in

1856
01:36:00,870 --> 01:35:59,199
relation to the space to the craft that

1857
01:36:04,979 --> 01:36:00,880
was landed in the imprints of the

1858
01:36:06,060 --> 01:36:04,989
landing gear all that stuff and then to

1859
01:36:10,830 --> 01:36:06,070
see the Air Force

1860
01:36:12,450 --> 01:36:10,840
Quintanilla clinic two years later at

1861
01:36:17,070 --> 01:36:12,460
the at the congressional hearings and

1862
01:36:19,649 --> 01:36:17,080
giving statements you see it it's plain

1863
01:36:22,590 --> 01:36:19,659
and simple what they were covered it up

1864
01:36:24,390 --> 01:36:22,600
period I hate to use the word cover-up

1865
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:24,400
and I know that Jacque doesn't like to

1866
01:36:29,459 --> 01:36:26,050
use that word either but that's what

1867
01:36:36,510 --> 01:36:29,469
they were doing do you think listening

1868
01:36:41,430 --> 01:36:36,520
to jacque's answer an attitude about it

1869
01:36:43,260 --> 01:36:41,440
he felt that I mean I mean he just said

1870
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:43,270
it that they were cooperating with me

1871
01:36:50,189 --> 01:36:45,280
they were they were being cool with me

1872
01:36:53,370 --> 01:36:50,199
is that a method of operation where they

1873
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:53,380
are going to make Joc comfortable right

1874
01:36:58,530 --> 01:36:56,650
and and and they would handle somebody

1875
01:37:01,080 --> 01:36:58,540
else a little bit differently to make

1876
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:01,090
them comfortable too as well maybe not

1877
01:37:05,459 --> 01:37:03,489
cooperate all right I don't know

1878
01:37:07,500 --> 01:37:05,469
wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you

1879
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:07,510
want someone as intelligent as jock on

1880
01:37:11,100 --> 01:37:09,010
your side that's what I'm saying you

1881
01:37:13,740 --> 01:37:11,110
want him when you want him in the fold

1882
01:37:15,660 --> 01:37:13,750
I would yeah you would have to you would

1883
01:37:18,330 --> 01:37:15,670
have to I mean come on man that got mean

1884
01:37:19,709 --> 01:37:18,340
the guy's like a genius so he thinks if

1885
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:19,719
they he's like 10 steps ahead of

1886
01:37:27,979 --> 01:37:24,250
everybody else I wanted your take on

1887
01:37:30,959 --> 01:37:27,989
this in your research with Socorro and

1888
01:37:32,820 --> 01:37:30,969
for me it's always stuck out and I don't

1889
01:37:35,550 --> 01:37:32,830
think that there's been enough focus on

1890
01:37:40,470 --> 01:37:35,560
it but that's the symbol that was on the

1891
01:37:42,780 --> 01:37:40,480
craft yeah that symbol through my

1892
01:37:46,530 --> 01:37:42,790
research of the in over the last 30

1893
01:37:50,189 --> 01:37:46,540
years I have seen that symbol around the

1894
01:37:52,379 --> 01:37:50,199
world from other eyewitnesses that have

1895
01:37:55,530 --> 01:37:52,389
described the exact same thing almost a

1896
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:55,540
similar craft to as well that

1897
01:37:59,820 --> 01:37:56,650
Mobley didn't know anything about

1898
01:38:02,610 --> 01:37:59,830
Socorro what do you what do you make of

1899
01:38:04,860 --> 01:38:02,620
that and what have you found out okay so

1900
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:04,870
Socorro saucer and a Pentagon pantry

1901
01:38:09,300 --> 01:38:06,370
that's the name of Ray Stanford's book

1902
01:38:11,480 --> 01:38:09,310
and ray fifty years ago had said look

1903
01:38:13,950 --> 01:38:11,490
you know there was an obfuscation they

1904
01:38:15,900 --> 01:38:13,960
deliberately and intentionally misled

1905
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:15,910
the public and put out a different

1906
01:38:20,850 --> 01:38:18,250
symbol so they could quickly identify a

1907
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:20,860
false claim of sighting the same craft

1908
01:38:28,020 --> 01:38:22,930
right oh no valid reason for doing that

1909
01:38:30,390 --> 01:38:28,030
night I thought was a good idea but Ray

1910
01:38:31,590 --> 01:38:30,400
was like no that's not the right symbol

1911
01:38:34,950 --> 01:38:31,600
it's not the right symbol and I think

1912
01:38:38,190 --> 01:38:34,960
people doubted him when I went to meet

1913
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:38,200
with longings amorous family his wife's

1914
01:38:44,820 --> 01:38:40,890
marry his daughter Diane his son Michael

1915
01:38:47,820 --> 01:38:44,830
his co-workers the local sheriff from

1916
01:38:50,010 --> 01:38:47,830
the 70s they all had clarified to me

1917
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:50,020
that that was one thing that he said the

1918
01:38:56,010 --> 01:38:53,770
past him to do one was downplay the beam

1919
01:38:58,050 --> 01:38:56,020
if you can just not talk about the beans

1920
01:38:59,940 --> 01:38:58,060
altogether that'd be great and the other

1921
01:39:01,170 --> 01:38:59,950
thing was the symbol on the craft lie

1922
01:39:04,860 --> 01:39:01,180
and st. was something else

1923
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:04,870
draw something different and when we

1924
01:39:09,420 --> 01:39:07,090
were and Noah's really had had

1925
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:09,430
definitive proof of what the symbol was

1926
01:39:15,510 --> 01:39:13,210
other than made heard accounts of it

1927
01:39:17,730 --> 01:39:15,520
from Lonnie before the the the Air Force

1928
01:39:20,150 --> 01:39:17,740
arrived but it or the military arrived

1929
01:39:23,250 --> 01:39:20,160
about an hour so after the incident the

1930
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:23,260
the the plants were still smoldering

1931
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:27,130
from the heat no one had known other

1932
01:39:31,260 --> 01:39:29,440
than his description of what it was it

1933
01:39:33,090 --> 01:39:31,270
was an inverted V with with three lines

1934
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:33,100
what it actually really looked like

1935
01:39:38,550 --> 01:39:36,250
until we found the document in the

1936
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:38,560
National Archives there's a there's a

1937
01:39:42,300 --> 01:39:40,210
photograph Adhan a photograph of it

1938
01:39:44,850 --> 01:39:42,310
online at the grey Stanford and symbol

1939
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:44,860
Socorro symbol but we found it in dr.

1940
01:39:52,050 --> 01:39:49,810
Hynek own handwriting yes and the real

1941
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:52,060
simple the real symbol was an inverted D

1942
01:39:57,420 --> 01:39:55,210
it looks like an A with three lines two

1943
01:40:00,710 --> 01:39:57,430
on the inside and one on top that's the

1944
01:40:05,070 --> 01:40:00,720
real symbol have you seen that symbol

1945
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:05,080
replicated no I haven't no I I

1946
01:40:09,419 --> 01:40:07,210
personally haven't neither Jacques I

1947
01:40:10,890 --> 01:40:09,429
gave Jacque the document and he

1948
01:40:13,490 --> 01:40:10,900
done extensive research and he hasn't

1949
01:40:20,910 --> 01:40:13,500
either hmm

1950
01:40:23,399 --> 01:40:20,920
the the other part is the beings and now

1951
01:40:25,610 --> 01:40:23,409
you touch upon that I'm gonna go back to

1952
01:40:27,899 --> 01:40:25,620
the National Archives

1953
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:27,909
okay what's presented in the film

1954
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:30,850
everybody check that out okay that's one

1955
01:40:37,260 --> 01:40:33,730
aspect of it but going back to the

1956
01:40:40,950 --> 01:40:37,270
National Archives what did they have

1957
01:40:42,540 --> 01:40:40,960
there when it came to footprints did you

1958
01:40:44,100 --> 01:40:42,550
see original photographs of the

1959
01:40:46,709 --> 01:40:44,110
footprints what do they look like what

1960
01:40:48,870 --> 01:40:46,719
were the size okay I'm here was one

1961
01:40:53,370 --> 01:40:48,880
thing that I was dying because when when

1962
01:40:56,399 --> 01:40:53,380
we got the original a file cabinet that

1963
01:40:57,810 --> 01:40:56,409
they rolled it out on wheels of of all

1964
01:41:00,360 --> 01:40:57,820
the original documents I mean raid I

1965
01:41:02,399 --> 01:41:00,370
couldn't believe it I mean we simply

1966
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:02,409
couldn't believe it it was like pinch

1967
01:41:08,510 --> 01:41:04,690
yourself moment and out it came and

1968
01:41:11,729 --> 01:41:08,520
there goes the halo in the sound of

1969
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:11,739
Brian in there and and and I actually

1970
01:41:15,180 --> 01:41:13,810
about an hour into it I had to go out

1971
01:41:16,590 --> 01:41:15,190
and get a flatbed scanner because we had

1972
01:41:18,540 --> 01:41:16,600
very limited time it was very

1973
01:41:20,580 --> 01:41:18,550
time-consuming process pulling one

1974
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:20,590
document out putting in placement holder

1975
01:41:25,709 --> 01:41:23,170
in its place going over to the photocopy

1976
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:25,719
machine no we had to go get a scanner I

1977
01:41:28,890 --> 01:41:26,890
had to get a flatbed scanner and I went

1978
01:41:30,570 --> 01:41:28,900
back up to the office to the front desk

1979
01:41:31,830 --> 01:41:30,580
and I said gosh you know while we're at

1980
01:41:33,930 --> 01:41:31,840
it could be happening about fifty two

1981
01:41:35,250 --> 01:41:33,940
dozen uh and they said sir actually we

1982
01:41:37,050 --> 01:41:35,260
made a mistake we were not supposed to

1983
01:41:38,430 --> 01:41:37,060
have given you the originals however

1984
01:41:40,770 --> 01:41:38,440
since you have them in your possession

1985
01:41:42,689 --> 01:41:40,780
you can add them till closing time so I

1986
01:41:44,430 --> 01:41:42,699
went and got a flatbed glass scanner and

1987
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:44,440
we just like rapid-fire went through it

1988
01:41:48,890 --> 01:41:46,330
and scanned those documents and what we

1989
01:41:53,370 --> 01:41:48,900
came across was one of the first

1990
01:41:57,180 --> 01:41:53,380
military men on the scene had done

1991
01:41:58,709 --> 01:41:57,190
diagrams of the landing site and some of

1992
01:42:00,660 --> 01:41:58,719
the eyewitness testimony that I'd talked

1993
01:42:02,550 --> 01:42:00,670
to said that you could clearly see in

1994
01:42:05,910 --> 01:42:02,560
the sand next to the landing gear

1995
01:42:07,740 --> 01:42:05,920
imprints footprints little pod palm

1996
01:42:11,459 --> 01:42:07,750
prints like small there were small

1997
01:42:13,500 --> 01:42:11,469
footprints right next to you know right

1998
01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:13,510
right next to the craft were though and

1999
01:42:18,419 --> 01:42:16,210
those were all documented clearly in the

2000
01:42:20,490 --> 01:42:18,429
film I mean you saw the section on

2001
01:42:23,190 --> 01:42:20,500
Socorro you had all the diagrams yes

2002
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:23,200
yeah there was four clears day and they

2003
01:42:26,700 --> 01:42:24,610
they documented the footprints that

2004
01:42:29,970 --> 01:42:26,710
correspond to the exact location were

2005
01:42:31,860 --> 01:42:29,980
law he said he saw beings in fact there

2006
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:31,870
was so little information on the beams

2007
01:42:35,340 --> 01:42:33,730
because that was an aspect of the

2008
01:42:38,130 --> 01:42:35,350
encounter that the airforce really

2009
01:42:42,810 --> 01:42:38,140
wanted him to downplay for obvious

2010
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:42,820
reasons when I went to Wally's house and

2011
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:44,890
and then against a whole story on how he

2012
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:47,650
met his wife and how I befriended her

2013
01:42:58,470 --> 01:42:53,410
and we became very close I got to I said

2014
01:43:01,250 --> 01:42:58,480
the long story I got to access long his

2015
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:01,260
personal archives and Lonnie had cut out

2016
01:43:07,020 --> 01:43:05,410
all these details of the encounter with

2017
01:43:09,450 --> 01:43:07,030
the beans of newspapers that were

2018
01:43:12,300 --> 01:43:09,460
printed within the following day or two

2019
01:43:14,970 --> 01:43:12,310
of the incident before they could tamp

2020
01:43:17,310 --> 01:43:14,980
down that aspect of the encounter and

2021
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:17,320
Lonnie had cut those out and kept them

2022
01:43:22,950 --> 01:43:19,570
in his personal archive and that's why

2023
01:43:27,330 --> 01:43:22,960
you see descriptions in the newspapers

2024
01:43:29,070 --> 01:43:27,340
about the encounter and Lonnie made eye

2025
01:43:30,810 --> 01:43:29,080
contact with one of the beams that

2026
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:30,820
turned and looked at him and was

2027
01:43:35,100 --> 01:43:33,370
startled when Lonnie was this long II

2028
01:43:36,990 --> 01:43:35,110
thought I was an overturned car that I

2029
01:43:40,020 --> 01:43:37,000
was a couple of children initially and

2030
01:43:42,810 --> 01:43:40,030
it's just remarkable to see that and and

2031
01:43:44,850 --> 01:43:42,820
and and and the fact that he had had

2032
01:43:46,380 --> 01:43:44,860
those of his personal archives you won't

2033
01:43:51,660 --> 01:43:46,390
find those newspaper articles anywhere

2034
01:43:53,190 --> 01:43:51,670
now how tall how tall were they they

2035
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:53,200
were literally described in his children

2036
01:43:57,510 --> 01:43:53,890
right

2037
01:44:01,710 --> 01:43:57,520
childlike small you know four feet

2038
01:44:05,490 --> 01:44:01,720
can you describe those footprints what

2039
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:05,500
you saw the National Archives yeah they

2040
01:44:11,820 --> 01:44:07,930
were just small they were just a few you

2041
01:44:14,340 --> 01:44:11,830
know 4 inches 5 inches and it looked

2042
01:44:16,170 --> 01:44:14,350
like from the diagrams that there was

2043
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:16,180
like I'm guessing they didn't say this

2044
01:44:20,850 --> 01:44:18,130
but it looked like there was a ladder or

2045
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:20,860
some sort of and they stepped out and

2046
01:44:24,060 --> 01:44:22,210
onto the ground they took a couple steps

2047
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:24,070
in both directions and that's when

2048
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:25,930
Lonnie rolled up right and they got back

2049
01:44:30,750 --> 01:44:29,410
inside left in Lonnie when he first

2050
01:44:34,380 --> 01:44:30,760
stopped the vehicle he was a couple

2051
01:44:36,629 --> 01:44:34,390
hundred yards away from from the craft

2052
01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:36,639
and the beans and when he drove for

2053
01:44:40,410 --> 01:44:39,010
and got out the craft was still on the

2054
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:40,420
ground he got within 50 feet of the

2055
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:45,130
craft that's when he had a good one of

2056
01:44:57,090 --> 01:44:50,290
the one of the most interesting points

2057
01:45:00,660 --> 01:44:57,100
that Lonny described for me was when he

2058
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:00,670
says that the craft you know they get

2059
01:45:08,370 --> 01:45:03,250
back on board they fire it up they rise

2060
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:08,380
up and it sits there for for a while

2061
01:45:12,959 --> 01:45:10,690
it's above the ground and I think he

2062
01:45:17,750 --> 01:45:12,969
said it was like 30 feet right 40 feet

2063
01:45:21,450 --> 01:45:17,760
off of the ground and then took off very

2064
01:45:25,500 --> 01:45:21,460
interesting observation and I always

2065
01:45:28,439 --> 01:45:25,510
felt that while it was honest in it but

2066
01:45:31,950 --> 01:45:28,449
it was it was not how other people would

2067
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:31,960
describe a fantasy right there will be

2068
01:45:39,479 --> 01:45:36,250
something else more you know fiction yes

2069
01:45:41,700 --> 01:45:39,489
it if you go to the lighting site which

2070
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:41,710
I've done many times and you look at

2071
01:45:46,470 --> 01:45:43,330
where they landed on the outskirts of

2072
01:45:49,620 --> 01:45:46,480
town trying this little gully Arroyo

2073
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:49,630
it's like if you want to if you had to

2074
01:45:54,540 --> 01:45:52,090
land and you wanted to minimize the

2075
01:45:57,270 --> 01:45:54,550
likelihood of being seen that's where

2076
01:46:01,410 --> 01:45:57,280
you would have landed they picked the

2077
01:46:06,180 --> 01:46:01,420
perfect spot to be out of sight what do

2078
01:46:09,540 --> 01:46:06,190
you make of the staying with Socorro the

2079
01:46:11,879 --> 01:46:09,550
description of the craft you know again

2080
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:11,889
well I mean it it reminded me of the

2081
01:46:15,540 --> 01:46:12,610
tic-tac

2082
01:46:19,830 --> 01:46:15,550
I knew you were gonna go there okay

2083
01:46:25,109 --> 01:46:19,840
let's say tic-tac --is-- right but up to

2084
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:25,119
that point the eyewitness the things

2085
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:28,170
that were being seen across the country

2086
01:46:37,459 --> 01:46:32,530
didn't have this description to it right

2087
01:46:42,660 --> 01:46:37,469
the Lani's are more inside was singular

2088
01:46:45,089 --> 01:46:42,670
exactly right very interesting David

2089
01:46:46,589 --> 01:46:45,099
Marlar the Marlar archives he has been

2090
01:46:49,980 --> 01:46:46,599
the film wouldn't be what it is without

2091
01:46:52,470 --> 01:46:49,990
David Marlar he turned us

2092
01:46:54,950 --> 01:46:52,480
on two there was a major landing wave

2093
01:46:57,960 --> 01:46:54,960
that happened in in or around Texas in

2094
01:47:00,630 --> 01:46:57,970
1957 and we cover some of that in the

2095
01:47:03,180 --> 01:47:00,640
film to demonstrate that there were very

2096
01:47:05,250 --> 01:47:03,190
credible people police officers included

2097
01:47:07,710 --> 01:47:05,260
and people at home an Air Force Base

2098
01:47:10,410 --> 01:47:07,720
that witnessed egg-shaped crafts that

2099
01:47:14,580 --> 01:47:10,420
were landing and when and we show some

2100
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:14,590
of those in the film and when Lonnie was

2101
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:16,090
I don't want to use the word

2102
01:47:20,070 --> 01:47:17,770
interrogated but practically they pulled

2103
01:47:22,380 --> 01:47:20,080
him in and they spent into the wee hours

2104
01:47:24,660 --> 01:47:22,390
of the night talking with him Lonnie had

2105
01:47:27,060 --> 01:47:24,670
explained that the the military had said

2106
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:27,070
to him yeah we cease crafter have been

2107
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:29,440
seen all around this area and if you

2108
01:47:34,140 --> 01:47:32,010
look at Socorro as the crow flies

2109
01:47:37,050 --> 01:47:34,150
Holloman Air Force Base is a stone's

2110
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:37,060
throw from Socorro New Mexico in fact

2111
01:47:42,090 --> 01:47:39,370
one of the things that I uncovered was

2112
01:47:43,100 --> 01:47:42,100
an article by Corral Lorenzen I don't

2113
01:47:46,350 --> 01:47:43,110
know if I pronounced your name correctly

2114
01:47:48,720 --> 01:47:46,360
but there was an a couple of articles

2115
01:47:52,710 --> 01:47:48,730
that she had written about a landing

2116
01:47:55,260 --> 01:47:52,720
case that's featured in UFOs past

2117
01:47:57,600 --> 01:47:55,270
present or future was a manager and and

2118
01:47:59,310 --> 01:47:57,610
Sandler right it's done in the 70s right

2119
01:48:00,720 --> 01:47:59,320
that alleged landing that happened at

2120
01:48:03,060 --> 01:48:00,730
Holloman where the occupants got out

2121
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:03,070
right well that was right around the

2122
01:48:08,790 --> 01:48:07,210
same time Socorro happened and there

2123
01:48:10,410 --> 01:48:08,800
were witnesses I because I was

2124
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:10,420
researching Socorro and I was reading

2125
01:48:13,950 --> 01:48:11,650
all the stuff I could possibly get my

2126
01:48:16,290 --> 01:48:13,960
hands on and I came across inadvertently

2127
01:48:19,260 --> 01:48:16,300
some articles that Corral and Lorenz and

2128
01:48:20,910 --> 01:48:19,270
it written about the landing Hallman and

2129
01:48:23,100 --> 01:48:20,920
there were witnesses both in the air and

2130
01:48:26,130 --> 01:48:23,110
on the ground and it validated that

2131
01:48:28,170 --> 01:48:26,140
landing case as well and and look if

2132
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:28,180
you're willing to accept that Socorro

2133
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:30,130
New Mexico was with extremely well

2134
01:48:35,070 --> 01:48:31,570
documented close encounter of the Third

2135
01:48:37,890 --> 01:48:35,080
Kind in other words the eyewitness who's

2136
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:37,900
in lot of these cases is a very solid

2137
01:48:44,700 --> 01:48:41,530
eyewitness reported beings associated

2138
01:48:47,190 --> 01:48:44,710
with the craft it wouldn't be that much

2139
01:48:49,020 --> 01:48:47,200
of a stretch to assume that that landing

2140
01:48:50,610 --> 01:48:49,030
which was it far away from Holloman

2141
01:48:52,290 --> 01:48:50,620
maybe there was some activity at all

2142
01:48:54,330 --> 01:48:52,300
that they were observing maybe not I

2143
01:48:55,500 --> 01:48:54,340
don't know not far from Trinity site as

2144
01:49:01,140 --> 01:48:55,510
well where we detonated the first

2145
01:49:02,970 --> 01:49:01,150
nuclear weapon or atomic bomb so the

2146
01:49:03,780 --> 01:49:02,980
likelihood of them having cameras on

2147
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:03,790
that

2148
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:06,130
maybe it happened I mean you know I I

2149
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:08,770
would never in a million years would

2150
01:49:13,500 --> 01:49:10,890
have thought that I would be saying this

2151
01:49:14,820 --> 01:49:13,510
that Hall of that halt that infamous

2152
01:49:16,110 --> 01:49:14,830
Holloman Landing case where the

2153
01:49:18,870 --> 01:49:16,120
occupants get out and they were all it

2154
01:49:21,000 --> 01:49:18,880
was all filmed I looked into that cart

2155
01:49:22,650 --> 01:49:21,010
quite a bit talk to Emma Nagar I talked

2156
01:49:24,900 --> 01:49:22,660
to Ellen Sandler about it I've seen

2157
01:49:26,430 --> 01:49:24,910
videotapes of the guy that was working

2158
01:49:28,770 --> 01:49:26,440
at Norton Air Force Base at the time

2159
01:49:34,590 --> 01:49:28,780
that claimed to have processed that film

2160
01:49:36,150 --> 01:49:34,600
footage you know so maybe they are

2161
01:49:38,370 --> 01:49:36,160
sitting on maybe the government is

2162
01:49:40,770 --> 01:49:38,380
sitting on footage of an event like

2163
01:49:43,530 --> 01:49:40,780
what's the court what what what one of

2164
01:49:45,240 --> 01:49:43,540
the more songs are coral but sorry let's

2165
01:49:48,500 --> 01:49:45,250
take a break right here James I'm going

2166
01:49:52,260 --> 01:49:48,510
to keep you over for over time since we

2167
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:52,270
had jock on for a full hour I'm gonna go

2168
01:49:56,640 --> 01:49:54,400
to a break right here I'm gonna ask you

2169
01:49:59,280 --> 01:49:56,650
to stay right there and let's continue

2170
01:50:03,300 --> 01:49:59,290
this because when we can Roger that yeah

2171
01:50:07,500 --> 01:50:03,310
yep yep and when we come back I gotta

2172
01:50:09,510 --> 01:50:07,510
talk about that b25 pilot that afford me

2173
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:09,520
I want to know your reaction this is

2174
01:50:12,910 --> 01:50:11,170
fade to black we'll be right back after

2175
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:12,920
this short break stay with us

2176
01:50:34,790 --> 01:50:31,160
welcome back Peter black coming to

2177
01:50:37,370 --> 01:50:34,800
church tonight director James Fox our

2178
01:50:40,310 --> 01:50:37,380
the phenomenon special event we had

2179
01:50:43,070 --> 01:50:40,320
jacques valet for a full hour that was a

2180
01:50:44,900 --> 01:50:43,080
pretty amazing and now that continue

2181
01:50:48,500 --> 01:50:44,910
want to go into some overtime I do want

2182
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:48,510
to mention James that you are going to

2183
01:50:55,970 --> 01:50:51,330
be at the star works conference in and

2184
01:50:58,220 --> 01:50:55,980
Laughlin with MS Harris and that's going

2185
01:51:02,120 --> 01:50:58,230
to be pretty cool for you to be able to

2186
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:02,130
for the community have the film play for

2187
01:51:06,890 --> 01:51:05,370
them and get their reaction it's so

2188
01:51:09,500 --> 01:51:06,900
funny I've been getting a couple of

2189
01:51:10,970 --> 01:51:09,510
messages I mean things are pretty

2190
01:51:12,740 --> 01:51:10,980
intense right now as you can imagine

2191
01:51:14,630 --> 01:51:12,750
this with the rollout of the film and

2192
01:51:16,580 --> 01:51:14,640
I've been getting oh you're gonna be it

2193
01:51:20,990 --> 01:51:16,590
you know this this comrades I'm like I

2194
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:21,000
am but yes I will be there but there was

2195
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:22,290
somebody else that was saying oh you're

2196
01:51:26,390 --> 01:51:23,850
gonna be this other UFO covers like

2197
01:51:28,370 --> 01:51:26,400
really yeah I didn't realize that no I

2198
01:51:31,280 --> 01:51:28,380
am you mean it's gonna be a lot of fun

2199
01:51:33,440 --> 01:51:31,290
to connect with you boy I've been kind

2200
01:51:35,750 --> 01:51:33,450
of avoiding for the most part not

2201
01:51:38,210 --> 01:51:35,760
entirely going to them because I feel

2202
01:51:39,620 --> 01:51:38,220
like my my efforts are much better and

2203
01:51:41,870 --> 01:51:39,630
my time is what's better off spent

2204
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:41,880
getting the film done off for obvious

2205
01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:45,050
obvious reasons but now that the film is

2206
01:51:51,979 --> 01:51:48,210
almost delivered we're just like 10 days

2207
01:51:55,790 --> 01:51:51,989
away it's gonna be fun to share with the

2208
01:52:03,380 --> 01:51:55,800
community and talk about the the process

2209
01:52:06,229 --> 01:52:03,390
of making it and yeah yeah now I wanted

2210
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:06,239
to I'm gonna ask you this question and

2211
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:08,970
and and do not give me the generic

2212
01:52:15,500 --> 01:52:13,530
answer and say I will get don't I have a

2213
01:52:17,330 --> 01:52:15,510
question for you I did before if you

2214
01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:17,340
wouldn't mind before we go could you

2215
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:21,090
just tell me right now what did you

2216
01:52:26,110 --> 01:52:23,610
think of the movie okay okay you have to

2217
01:52:29,740 --> 01:52:26,120
watch it yes got it beyond people's mind

2218
01:52:33,930 --> 01:52:29,750
what do you think what

2219
01:52:37,630 --> 01:52:33,940
I thought that it was nearly perfect

2220
01:52:39,490 --> 01:52:37,640
okay and now that that's a that's a

2221
01:52:43,570 --> 01:52:39,500
political that's a politician's answer

2222
01:52:47,140 --> 01:52:43,580
right that that it's nearly perfect for

2223
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:47,150
me because I have my favorite cases and

2224
01:52:54,100 --> 01:52:50,650
two of those cases that I think

2225
01:52:56,140 --> 01:52:54,110
absolutely need more attention are here

2226
01:53:00,070 --> 01:52:56,150
and I'm so happy about that I'm talking

2227
01:53:05,950 --> 01:53:00,080
about Westall and and zu Rua a

2228
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:05,960
Zimbabwean for me in a personal way I

2229
01:53:12,070 --> 01:53:09,290
wish that there was more of those two

2230
01:53:13,990 --> 01:53:12,080
cases there but you can't do it it's oh

2231
01:53:17,080 --> 01:53:14,000
it's only one film all right so there's

2232
01:53:20,680 --> 01:53:17,090
that part now that being said I thought

2233
01:53:24,250 --> 01:53:20,690
that I did nothing but learn so much

2234
01:53:27,730 --> 01:53:24,260
that I didn't know before and and James

2235
01:53:29,950 --> 01:53:27,740
that's tough for a person like me to go

2236
01:53:33,850 --> 01:53:29,960
through because I see all the stuff I

2237
01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:33,860
you know just like you yeah yeah you

2238
01:53:39,610 --> 01:53:37,250
know but this time around it wasn't the

2239
01:53:44,350 --> 01:53:39,620
case where I was able to just sit and

2240
01:53:47,260 --> 01:53:44,360
learn and and be engaged now putting all

2241
01:53:49,900 --> 01:53:47,270
of that aside the most important aspect

2242
01:53:53,050 --> 01:53:49,910
I think for this film that I was most

2243
01:53:56,620 --> 01:53:53,060
impressed with is the visuals and the

2244
01:53:59,260 --> 01:53:56,630
cinematography the music the final edits

2245
01:54:03,690 --> 01:53:59,270
and and and graphics are icing on the

2246
01:54:06,730 --> 01:54:03,700
cake but visually it is stunning and

2247
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:06,740
when everything else is done you know

2248
01:54:12,820 --> 01:54:09,530
the the magician's in color correction

2249
01:54:15,690 --> 01:54:12,830
have their way and and and the music and

2250
01:54:18,700 --> 01:54:15,700
and the 5.1 and Dolby and all of that

2251
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:18,710
that that's just going to improve what

2252
01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:20,960
I've already seen so you have a lot to

2253
01:54:25,090 --> 01:54:21,770
be proud of

2254
01:54:27,730 --> 01:54:25,100
and and I have no issues with standing

2255
01:54:29,950 --> 01:54:27,740
behind this film it's it's it's it's

2256
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:29,960
that good it man

2257
01:54:35,230 --> 01:54:33,410
man okay now now that you got no no I

2258
01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:35,240
really are I love hearing that because

2259
01:54:41,650 --> 01:54:38,930
there you know this is you know you're

2260
01:54:43,600 --> 01:54:41,660
one of the first handful of people that

2261
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:43,610
it's gotten to see it and

2262
01:54:50,459 --> 01:54:47,090
and I I see it's hard for you not too

2263
01:54:53,080 --> 01:54:50,469
tart for me as a filmmaker when I see

2264
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:53,090
responses negative responses on on

2265
01:54:56,320 --> 01:54:54,530
threads and I'm always told not to read

2266
01:54:58,450 --> 01:54:56,330
them but sometimes I see all the same

2267
01:55:02,109 --> 01:54:58,460
old rehash right and it really

2268
01:55:04,899 --> 01:55:02,119
like I work so hard not to Jamie right

2269
01:55:07,149 --> 01:55:04,909
yeah right so hard the biggest

2270
01:55:09,490 --> 01:55:07,159
never-before-seen right I will footage I

2271
01:55:11,229 --> 01:55:09,500
could make a documentary on just finding

2272
01:55:13,030 --> 01:55:11,239
the stuff that we found right swear to

2273
01:55:15,399 --> 01:55:13,040
you I'm not reading it right right so I

2274
01:55:16,840 --> 01:55:15,409
want to I get so frustrated like no you

2275
01:55:18,970 --> 01:55:16,850
have no idea what you're talking about

2276
01:55:20,740 --> 01:55:18,980
that's why someone who's seen it I'm

2277
01:55:24,189 --> 01:55:20,750
asking you what do you what would you

2278
01:55:28,090 --> 01:55:24,199
say to that person yeah you know what

2279
01:55:31,090 --> 01:55:28,100
and you'll be able to I can confidently

2280
01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:31,100
say that you're gonna silence all of

2281
01:55:36,879 --> 01:55:34,250
that BS and that that's pretty cool

2282
01:55:40,270 --> 01:55:36,889
you've got this in your back pocket now

2283
01:55:43,479 --> 01:55:40,280
and you can just kick back and enjoy the

2284
01:55:46,540 --> 01:55:43,489
ride that is about to happen and having

2285
01:55:49,990 --> 01:55:46,550
a nationwide theatrical release and and

2286
01:55:52,240 --> 01:55:50,000
this kind of approach to a documentary

2287
01:55:55,479 --> 01:55:52,250
like Jacques said right this is this is

2288
01:55:57,879 --> 01:55:55,489
nonfiction this is nonfiction this is a

2289
01:56:00,040 --> 01:55:57,889
whole different way to handle this kind

2290
01:56:02,830 --> 01:56:00,050
of release and and I'm excited about

2291
01:56:05,260 --> 01:56:02,840
that getting back to it now this was my

2292
01:56:08,859 --> 01:56:05,270
question to you and I don't want to hear

2293
01:56:12,070 --> 01:56:08,869
you say all of it if there's one thing

2294
01:56:14,140 --> 01:56:12,080
in the film that you want people to pay

2295
01:56:17,740 --> 01:56:14,150
attention to one specific case one

2296
01:56:22,750 --> 01:56:17,750
specific moment what would you have that

2297
01:56:24,669 --> 01:56:22,760
be Harry Reid sipping that water as he

2298
01:56:25,899 --> 01:56:24,679
contemplates responding to my question

2299
01:56:30,660 --> 01:56:25,909
yeah that was pretty intense

2300
01:56:34,330 --> 01:56:30,670
actually he was uncomfortable man I was

2301
01:56:36,280 --> 01:56:34,340
yeah yeah I asked the question I felt

2302
01:56:39,970 --> 01:56:36,290
uncomfortable kind of asking it but I

2303
01:56:42,280 --> 01:56:39,980
had to ask it and he takes a sip of

2304
01:56:43,510 --> 01:56:42,290
water puts the cap back on and drops the

2305
01:56:47,260 --> 01:56:43,520
ball yes he does

2306
01:56:49,090 --> 01:56:47,270
yes he does I agree with you there that

2307
01:56:51,700 --> 01:56:49,100
was that was a pretty strong holiday to

2308
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:51,710
come it's a confirmation and a very high

2309
01:56:55,870 --> 01:56:53,570
level of government what we all

2310
01:56:57,440 --> 01:56:55,880
suspected yeah I know I know I know I I

2311
01:57:02,300 --> 01:56:57,450
can't wait for the music

2312
01:57:04,370 --> 01:57:02,310
dun-dun-dun so and and the I was I was

2313
01:57:07,610 --> 01:57:04,380
like in fact I said I said to the music

2314
01:57:09,890 --> 01:57:07,620
composer like Christopher Christopher ho

2315
01:57:12,110 --> 01:57:09,900
he's amazing and he's been putting his

2316
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:12,120
heart and soul into composing this and I

2317
01:57:18,260 --> 01:57:15,930
said Chris when that drop I want them to

2318
01:57:22,090 --> 01:57:18,270
feel it in their bones yeah it's a

2319
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:22,100
pretty good moment now okay so for me

2320
01:57:30,980 --> 01:57:26,970
it's that it's that pilot that's that

2321
01:57:37,130 --> 01:57:30,990
the pilot it and and and listen one of

2322
01:57:40,220 --> 01:57:37,140
the most important witnesses that we can

2323
01:57:42,410 --> 01:57:40,230
hear from our pilots because we are

2324
01:57:45,410 --> 01:57:42,420
talking about professional observers

2325
01:57:52,850 --> 01:57:45,420
they may be flying a plane but they got

2326
01:57:53,810 --> 01:57:52,860
a watch professional observers and and

2327
01:57:56,150 --> 01:57:53,820
flavor

2328
01:57:58,430 --> 01:57:56,160
we've all heard from him he's great in

2329
01:58:00,140 --> 01:57:58,440
the film and his description of what's

2330
01:58:02,030 --> 01:58:00,150
going that's why it's so riveting

2331
01:58:06,710 --> 01:58:02,040
because you know these are professional

2332
01:58:11,300 --> 01:58:06,720
pilots right that pilot from in that

2333
01:58:14,750 --> 01:58:11,310
World War two scenario mindset for him

2334
01:58:19,570 --> 01:58:14,760
to give the color commentary of his

2335
01:58:23,720 --> 01:58:19,580
encounter and what he saw absolutely

2336
01:58:25,550 --> 01:58:23,730
spellbinding what did you make know well

2337
01:58:29,870 --> 01:58:25,560
remember this remember that it's not

2338
01:58:33,500 --> 01:58:29,880
just a pilot he was a colonel in the Air

2339
01:58:37,100 --> 01:58:33,510
Force and he was later put as public

2340
01:58:40,370 --> 01:58:37,110
spokesman for Project Blue Book Colonel

2341
01:58:42,890 --> 01:58:40,380
William T Coleman so the irony is this

2342
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:42,900
guy has a dramatic he's a World War two

2343
01:58:48,860 --> 01:58:45,210
pilot as well right has a dramatic

2344
01:58:51,470 --> 01:58:48,870
encounter in a b25 in 1955 over Alabama

2345
01:58:56,300 --> 01:58:51,480
with an unidentified flying object

2346
01:58:58,880 --> 01:58:56,310
a disc he's with engineers from Lockheed

2347
01:59:03,290 --> 01:58:58,890
Martin and Boeing in the in the plane

2348
01:59:06,530 --> 01:59:03,300
with him and the the the duration of the

2349
01:59:09,080 --> 01:59:06,540
encounter lasted roughly nine minutes it

2350
01:59:11,210 --> 01:59:09,090
started off somewhere around 9,000 feet

2351
01:59:13,910 --> 01:59:11,220
elevation and ended up at Wood

2352
01:59:16,580 --> 01:59:13,920
he described his maximum continuous

2353
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:16,590
power at treetop level and at one point

2354
01:59:21,710 --> 01:59:19,770
he told me that he had to take evasive

2355
01:59:23,510 --> 01:59:21,720
action because they thought they were

2356
01:59:26,630 --> 01:59:23,520
gonna collide with the flying saucer and

2357
01:59:29,120 --> 01:59:26,640
we're gonna overtake it's right 30 40 50

2358
01:59:32,150 --> 01:59:29,130
feet off the ground they were so close

2359
01:59:34,640 --> 01:59:32,160
to the trees at chasing this thing that

2360
01:59:36,410 --> 01:59:34,650
they in in order for him to take a

2361
01:59:38,600 --> 01:59:36,420
right-hand turn to avoid hitting this

2362
01:59:40,790 --> 01:59:38,610
thing so he thought he's gonna hit it he

2363
01:59:43,490 --> 01:59:40,800
had to lift up on the controls pull the

2364
01:59:49,190 --> 01:59:43,500
plane up and then dip a wing that's how

2365
01:59:51,770 --> 01:59:49,200
low he was so when we just thought well

2366
01:59:55,550 --> 01:59:51,780
when I decided to do the recreation I

2367
01:59:59,120 --> 01:59:55,560
actually turned to my DP this guy David

2368
02:00:01,280 --> 01:59:59,130
West and I said Dave during the

2369
02:00:03,470 --> 02:00:01,290
interview in Florida at Colonel William

2370
02:00:04,490 --> 02:00:03,480
T Coleman's house I said Dave this is

2371
02:00:06,050 --> 02:00:04,500
going to be the opening scene in the

2372
02:00:08,120 --> 02:00:06,060
whole movie and we're gonna write a b25

2373
02:00:10,130 --> 02:00:08,130
of course you know didn't have any

2374
02:00:12,670 --> 02:00:10,140
resources to do that at the time but I

2375
02:00:16,310 --> 02:00:12,680
was how bad this is going to be it and

2376
02:00:17,900 --> 02:00:16,320
because not just the it was a very

2377
02:00:19,370 --> 02:00:17,910
unambiguous encounter because a lot of

2378
02:00:21,920 --> 02:00:19,380
times you hear oh I saw this like weird

2379
02:00:24,740 --> 02:00:21,930
light no man this guy came within feet

2380
02:00:26,930 --> 02:00:24,750
of colliding when the flying saucer at

2381
02:00:28,730 --> 02:00:26,940
treetop level it's so dramatic and then

2382
02:00:31,850 --> 02:00:28,740
the fact that it became public spokesman

2383
02:00:35,210 --> 02:00:31,860
for Project Blue Book the Air Force's

2384
02:00:38,630 --> 02:00:35,220
UFO investigatory arm it's just

2385
02:00:41,540 --> 02:00:38,640
incredible and I remember when we first

2386
02:00:45,590 --> 02:00:41,550
got started with the film I kept saying

2387
02:00:48,350 --> 02:00:45,600
to my new this guy this investor guy

2388
02:00:50,300 --> 02:00:48,360
Larry he said I said we've gotta go we

2389
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:50,310
gotta go to Florida we gotta interview

2390
02:00:53,090 --> 02:00:51,930
this guy Colonel Cole there's a guy cool

2391
02:00:55,190 --> 02:00:53,100
your jets man we're gonna get there I

2392
02:00:57,470 --> 02:00:55,200
was like well for me in a plan we're

2393
02:00:58,190 --> 02:00:57,480
gonna budget together like no no we

2394
02:01:00,350 --> 02:00:58,200
gotta go now

2395
02:01:02,900 --> 02:01:00,360
like this guy's 90 years old gotta go

2396
02:01:04,700 --> 02:01:02,910
now and I just raised hell about I would

2397
02:01:06,530 --> 02:01:04,710
not let up and finally he's like alright

2398
02:01:08,780 --> 02:01:06,540
go just go and I went out there and of

2399
02:01:09,940 --> 02:01:08,790
course he died like months later so the

2400
02:01:13,010 --> 02:01:09,950
fact that we got that on camera

2401
02:01:16,250 --> 02:01:13,020
documented and then we rented a b25

2402
02:01:18,800 --> 02:01:16,260
lease bingo help find that plane for

2403
02:01:20,750 --> 02:01:18,810
actually a day and the man's doing a

2404
02:01:23,900 --> 02:01:20,760
follow-up shoot to pick up some pick up

2405
02:01:24,920 --> 02:01:23,910
some pick up shots I love that scene I

2406
02:01:28,160 --> 02:01:24,930
love that Oh

2407
02:01:31,100 --> 02:01:28,170
it's amazing really proud of it now here

2408
02:01:36,200 --> 02:01:31,110
we are man with the with the obvious

2409
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:36,210
question I I keep repeating this but

2410
02:01:41,750 --> 02:01:38,010
it's reality

2411
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:41,760
this is 20/20 and things have progressed

2412
02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:45,090
and you have been making films and and

2413
02:01:50,630 --> 02:01:47,970
working on this for so long but here we

2414
02:01:53,420 --> 02:01:50,640
are man it's 20/20 you've got this film

2415
02:01:57,410 --> 02:01:53,430
that's about to get released are we

2416
02:02:00,560 --> 02:01:57,420
getting close are we getting close to

2417
02:02:05,600 --> 02:02:00,570
this are we gonna are we gonna get to

2418
02:02:09,950 --> 02:02:05,610
this maybe this year I got a phone call

2419
02:02:14,050 --> 02:02:09,960
was very encouraging from our

2420
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:14,060
distributor today they said that the

2421
02:02:20,390 --> 02:02:17,370
response from the drop of this trailer

2422
02:02:25,430 --> 02:02:20,400
and the announcement of this film has

2423
02:02:28,100 --> 02:02:25,440
been so welcomed it's been so it's

2424
02:02:31,130 --> 02:02:28,110
excited so many people and the articles

2425
02:02:37,220 --> 02:02:31,140
and and and that they went from 700

2426
02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:37,230
theaters to 1300 theaters today that

2427
02:02:42,770 --> 02:02:38,690
they're going to be playing the trailer

2428
02:02:45,500 --> 02:02:42,780
for two months just about two months

2429
02:02:48,050 --> 02:02:45,510
prior to the release of the film so this

2430
02:02:51,740 --> 02:02:48,060
is very encouraging I think that it's

2431
02:02:53,060 --> 02:02:51,750
our time I think that you know look if

2432
02:02:57,170 --> 02:02:53,070
the government's not going to do it

2433
02:02:59,180 --> 02:02:57,180
we're gonna do it for them there's no

2434
02:03:03,980 --> 02:02:59,190
question in my mind and maybe you feel

2435
02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:03,990
differently but this film the people

2436
02:03:08,470 --> 02:03:06,810
that have seen it very skeptical people

2437
02:03:12,950 --> 02:03:08,480
that I've invited into the Edit room

2438
02:03:16,190 --> 02:03:12,960
they don't say oh I don't think this is

2439
02:03:18,980 --> 02:03:16,200
real they say oh that's why maybe that's

2440
02:03:22,570 --> 02:03:18,990
why they're you oh oh that's what it's

2441
02:03:26,570 --> 02:03:22,580
all of oh I see right so I think that

2442
02:03:28,010 --> 02:03:26,580
it's the case that we make and I don't

2443
02:03:30,380 --> 02:03:28,020
want to come across as someone that's

2444
02:03:32,770 --> 02:03:30,390
prophesizing to come join my cult of

2445
02:03:35,570 --> 02:03:32,780
believers to not where I'm at at all I

2446
02:03:38,200 --> 02:03:35,580
look at it more that there's people that

2447
02:03:40,300 --> 02:03:38,210
are informed what's been going on

2448
02:03:42,550 --> 02:03:40,310
and people that are uninformed and I

2449
02:03:47,820 --> 02:03:42,560
think this film is going to lead people

2450
02:03:50,500 --> 02:03:47,830
to be in the category of informed the

2451
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:50,510
the amount of times where you have gone

2452
02:03:59,820 --> 02:03:53,930
through some pretty intense frustrations

2453
02:04:04,870 --> 02:03:59,830
right you've walked away walked away and

2454
02:04:06,970 --> 02:04:04,880
but here after deciding to come back at

2455
02:04:10,510 --> 02:04:06,980
this once again and take another crack

2456
02:04:13,720 --> 02:04:10,520
at it and because it is so important

2457
02:04:16,330 --> 02:04:13,730
that that speaks volumes but where did

2458
02:04:18,940 --> 02:04:16,340
you find the energy because when you

2459
02:04:21,610 --> 02:04:18,950
decided to you know virtually walk off

2460
02:04:24,700 --> 02:04:21,620
the set of your TV show and you know

2461
02:04:27,100 --> 02:04:24,710
I've did this I can't I can't do this to

2462
02:04:31,060 --> 02:04:27,110
where you are now how easy was it to

2463
02:04:32,100 --> 02:04:31,070
come back and continue the fight not

2464
02:04:37,240 --> 02:04:32,110
easy

2465
02:04:39,190 --> 02:04:37,250
I look back at how hard this fight was

2466
02:04:42,220 --> 02:04:39,200
and I don't even I think that if I'd

2467
02:04:44,200 --> 02:04:42,230
known I kind of knew had a little bit of

2468
02:04:46,510 --> 02:04:44,210
a hint but how difficult this was going

2469
02:04:48,190 --> 02:04:46,520
to be I'm not kidding I don't want to

2470
02:04:49,510 --> 02:04:48,200
sound like I'm exaggerating like I'm

2471
02:04:51,190 --> 02:04:49,520
exaggerating here I'm really not

2472
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:51,200
exaggerated I thought I was going to die

2473
02:04:57,370 --> 02:04:55,850
making this movie I pushed myself to the

2474
02:05:02,800 --> 02:04:57,380
am right on the edge of the envelope I

2475
02:05:04,630 --> 02:05:02,810
pushed myself so hard I thought I could

2476
02:05:07,209 --> 02:05:04,640
die I really did right

2477
02:05:12,310 --> 02:05:07,219
I thought I was dying I've never worked

2478
02:05:16,750 --> 02:05:12,320
so hard on my life and I did it because

2479
02:05:18,820 --> 02:05:16,760
I felt like this is our time and this

2480
02:05:22,390 --> 02:05:18,830
might be the last opportunity maybe it

2481
02:05:25,900 --> 02:05:22,400
is maybe it's not I don't know but I was

2482
02:05:28,840 --> 02:05:25,910
all in on this one and I and I really

2483
02:05:30,610 --> 02:05:28,850
mean that I the only people that are

2484
02:05:33,870 --> 02:05:30,620
really close to me know how much I put

2485
02:05:36,940 --> 02:05:33,880
into making this movie happen it was a

2486
02:05:38,950 --> 02:05:36,950
colossal undertaking begging and

2487
02:05:42,790 --> 02:05:38,960
pleading for money constantly running

2488
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:42,800
out partners that failed and keeping the

2489
02:05:47,979 --> 02:05:45,290
thing alive I mean it was it's a miracle

2490
02:05:51,610 --> 02:05:47,989
it's all I can say the miracle thank you

2491
02:05:54,520 --> 02:05:51,620
so much James and I can't

2492
02:05:57,550 --> 02:05:54,530
I can't thank you enough and I'm just

2493
02:06:00,550 --> 02:05:57,560
going to announce to everybody now I was

2494
02:06:04,750 --> 02:06:00,560
gonna hold off but I think it may be how

2495
02:06:07,360 --> 02:06:04,760
today is Thursday but James let me tell

2496
02:06:11,050 --> 02:06:07,370
you how much energy this guy's got we

2497
02:06:13,510 --> 02:06:11,060
just did tonight's show in two nights he

2498
02:06:16,690 --> 02:06:13,520
is gonna be joining me once again over

2499
02:06:20,860 --> 02:06:16,700
on coast to coast am and we're gonna do

2500
02:06:23,350 --> 02:06:20,870
it all over again and and and that's how

2501
02:06:25,120 --> 02:06:23,360
important this item is I could talk for

2502
02:06:28,420 --> 02:06:25,130
24 hours straight I'll make you it

2503
02:06:33,010 --> 02:06:28,430
easily there's there's a story to every

2504
02:06:35,050 --> 02:06:33,020
single picture interview archive piece

2505
02:06:37,570 --> 02:06:35,060
of material I'm not kidding you it's

2506
02:06:41,560 --> 02:06:37,580
unbelievable the backstory to this film

2507
02:06:44,110 --> 02:06:41,570
should be a film it's awesome I I hope

2508
02:06:46,960 --> 02:06:44,120
you did shoot some behind-the-scenes

2509
02:06:50,020 --> 02:06:46,970
documentary footage to tell me I did

2510
02:06:51,700 --> 02:06:50,030
like it alright alright alright well

2511
02:06:53,950 --> 02:06:51,710
enjoy the rest of your evening James

2512
02:06:56,740 --> 02:06:53,960
thank you so much the trailer can be

2513
02:06:59,650 --> 02:06:56,750
seen over on our YouTube channel we've

2514
02:07:01,600 --> 02:06:59,660
got the links up on all of social media

2515
02:07:04,000 --> 02:07:01,610
go and check out the trailer for the

2516
02:07:07,630 --> 02:07:04,010
phenomenon the release will be in

2517
02:07:11,230 --> 02:07:07,640
September correct yeah it was going to

2518
02:07:13,330 --> 02:07:11,240
be in June but honestly I missed the

2519
02:07:15,400 --> 02:07:13,340
delivery date and I did it for good for

2520
02:07:18,790 --> 02:07:15,410
good reason I knew it can be released in

2521
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:18,800
theaters and they opted to extend the

2522
02:07:24,370 --> 02:07:21,770
delivery date because I hired a Daytime

2523
02:07:25,930 --> 02:07:24,380
Emmy award-winning sound engineer to do

2524
02:07:27,940 --> 02:07:25,940
the sound from start to finish which is

2525
02:07:29,800 --> 02:07:27,950
taking them six weeks and there's a

2526
02:07:32,380 --> 02:07:29,810
music a composition guy that's putting

2527
02:07:34,300 --> 02:07:32,390
this heart and soul into composing music

2528
02:07:35,680 --> 02:07:34,310
for this entire piece from start to

2529
02:07:37,990 --> 02:07:35,690
finish and unfortunately the version

2530
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:38,000
that you saw Jimmy wasn't any of that

2531
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:40,850
neither was the color correction so the

2532
02:07:44,320 --> 02:07:42,410
version that's coming out is going to be

2533
02:07:46,900 --> 02:07:44,330
ten times better than what you saw I

2534
02:07:49,990 --> 02:07:46,910
can't wait James get some rest and

2535
02:07:56,790 --> 02:07:50,000
you're going to need it will be a live

2536
02:08:01,030 --> 02:07:56,800
on coast in about 48 hours my family by

2537
02:08:02,980 --> 02:08:01,040
James Fox the links are up on our

2538
02:08:04,330 --> 02:08:02,990
website they're up all throughout

2539
02:08:08,110 --> 02:08:04,340
Twitter

2540
02:08:09,670 --> 02:08:08,120
and the film is the phenomenon and it is

2541
02:08:12,280 --> 02:08:09,680
all of that I do want to thank Jacque

2542
02:08:15,220 --> 02:08:12,290
Valley too as well I am your host Jimmy

2543
02:08:17,160 --> 02:08:15,230
Church I'm gonna go and relax for 24

2544
02:08:20,380 --> 02:08:17,170
hours and then go get to work over at

2545
02:08:22,450 --> 02:08:20,390
coast to coast am days of blacks

2546
02:08:24,880 --> 02:08:22,460
executive producers ritika Murray on

2547
02:08:27,160 --> 02:08:24,890
shows produced by Hill Jay Paul Renee

2548
02:08:29,370 --> 02:08:27,170
Dennis and Bob announcers our Steve

2549
02:08:32,620 --> 02:08:29,380
harver gene bitola Marty colbaugh

2550
02:08:36,250 --> 02:08:32,630
webmaster is drew the geek music doug

2551
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:36,260
aldrich intro space boy space boy music

2552
02:08:40,650 --> 02:08:38,690
calm fade to black is produced by

2553
02:08:45,640 --> 02:08:40,660
kjsurya the game-changer network

2554
02:08:48,010 --> 02:08:45,650
syndication is k g ra the planet thus

2555
02:08:49,390 --> 02:08:48,020
podcasts on the copyright of 2020 by

2556
02:08:51,100 --> 02:08:49,400
fade to black in the game changer

2557
02:08:53,230 --> 02:08:51,110
network they cannot be rebroadcast

2558
02:08:55,060 --> 02:08:53,240
download a copy door used anywhere in

2559
02:08:56,680 --> 02:08:55,070
the known universe without written

2560
02:08:58,690 --> 02:08:56,690
permission from fade to black of the

2561
02:09:01,120 --> 02:08:58,700
game changer network our meals Jimmy

2562
02:09:04,590 --> 02:09:01,130
Church I'll see everybody Saturday over

2563
02:09:08,310 --> 02:09:04,600
echoes until then be safe

2564
02:09:17,260 --> 02:09:14,650
[Music]

2565
02:09:38,050 --> 02:09:17,270
[Applause]